Pecking order

[Z_Mom]

Looking for some advise. How can I get Zorro to realize that he's number 3 in the house pecking order? He is a great dog when I'm out of the house with him. He walks very well on the leash and listens to me. At home he is a living terror. He will bark and jump at me for attention. When I tell him "Quiet" or "Down", he clacks at me. If I turn away from him and ignore him, he will nip my butt. All the man of the house has to do is say "Down" and Zorro will lay down and leave me alone. He is about 7 1/2 months old now. Will he stop doing this as he gets older? Any ideas on how I can stop this?

[centrop67]

Does this attention seeking behavior include Chewbacca sounds?

Sounds like crazy hour.

Radar's almost 3, and he still does this from time to time.

Relaxation training has some affect. Search the posts for crazy hour and/or relaxation.

[Raven]

Are you involved with his training at all? If so, how much and are you and spouse on the same page with training? Are you consistent? Fair? Do you let him slide? Who feeds him? There's no reason for him to stop dissing IF you aren't presenting yourself as a leader he needs to follow.

I see the behavior you described as lack of respect, therefore, he's doing what comes naturally----assuming your involvement with training is either limited or occasional.

[Z_Mom]

Yes, there is a lot of whining and Chewbacca sounds. It usually happens after the crazy hours and it's only when we are home. I took him to the vet last month and was worried that he would try to bite someone. As soon as we walked in he turned into a 55 lb. pile of puppy mush. He wiggle-butted all over the place. I told him to sit and he sat. Didn't try to bite or jump. So it seems to just be a problem at home. I will look through some other posts for tips on relaxation training. I may need it more than him.
Raven, I do everything for Zorro. Spouse has been known to undo some training but we're working on correcting that. It just seems to be a problem at home, like Zorro is trying to be second in command.

[Dutchringgirl]

he is definitely disrespecting you. Put him on a leash all of the time, and be the leader and there are consequences for dissin you. You are not firm enough and he knows he can get away with this.

[karenz]

Xander did this with me as a very young pup. Ifor he nipped at me I would tell him no and redirect him to something else. It took alot of repetition but by the time he was 4 months old he understood. I also molded his nips into kisses. So I get lots of kisses now but I don't mind. In the beginning of this learning process Xander would clack at me as well, when I told him no. Like his way of talking back. I ignored him and once he figured out I would ignore him he quit.

As for crazy hour, or zoomies as I called it, I would quietly lead him to his crate. I figured out he was the same as a three year old fighting a nap. Within a couple minutes of being in his crate he was sound asleep. When he started zoomies I would say uh oh zooooommmmies before I took him to his crate. He learned the word zoomies and now does it on command, outside of course. It is a great way for him to burn some energy.

[johninny]

reading between the lines - and with the further info provided in your 2nd post [ that the nipping only happens at certain times - when he is very excited and wants your attention (?) ] - it sounds to me like Zorro is just an overly ''caffeinated'' dog - like Stephanie's Odin or my Xander - that has trouble containing his joy around best friends. given how great he is away from home, i am guessing that he is rapidly turning into a really spectacular DS.

so he really loves you and takes out his love and excitement on you. personally - in this specific case [my best guess] - i think it is not so much that he is trying to be above you in the pecking order, but that he just has not learned that his excesses when super excited are not appropriate. so, if i have understood the situation correctly, i would not want to respond with overkill. Karen's approach is good if you have a crate. also, if you know it is coming on, have treats handy and get him to sit or do some exercises or OB practice that he might like. if you cannot do that timing-wise, teach him ''settle'', or easy/gentle.

my Xander was a real nipper when excited, but each time he did it, i exclaimed ''ouch'' as if hurt and grabbed his snout, saying in a friendly but firm manner, ''no! - careful - easy,'' as i wanted to get across 3 different messages: ''no'' - nipping or biting a human is not allowed, ''careful'' - when being mouthy, take care not to hurt, and ''easy'' - you need to calm down a bit. with him, i never did anything more as i did not want to diminish his really overwhelming desire to please me and to take risks to do so. he is such a spectacular thinker that i want to be careful WHAT i tame. he still gets incredibly excited [too much so], but intentional nipping is not done except maybe a rate of 2 a year when his excitement level goes off the charts even for him. [ but i do not view that as disrespect per se - just love and excitement. ]

teach language [ settle, easy, careful, gentle, go lay down - and i use a french phrase for ''if you wait a bit, you will get what you want'' ] and then be VERY firm in a friendly context. perhaps i am reading too much into the little you have described, but Zorro sounds like he has well-above-average potential; you just have to help him channel that potential and teaching language is a great way to get the maximum out of such a dog.

[LyonsFamily]

Do you do anything to channel his behavior into something appropriate? Odin is very much like this. He doesn't give much of the same "attention" to my husband because honestly, hubby is boring and he knows it isn't fun to continually harass him. Even though I'm the trainer and he obeys commands from me better when we're serious or his working gear is on, he also sees me as his source for play time.

Tugging really changed that as it taught him an appropriate and inappropriate time for biting, jumping, and just going all out. He also does really well during nosework as it causes him to focus on a task and act serious in order to get attention and rewards from me. Now on the other hand, he's completely inappropriate and over the top with my dad when he comes to visit because my dad gets stressed and overreacts for Odin jumps on him and chews on his arm and Odin gets a kick out of the excitement and things he's turning it into a game. It has nothing to do with respect there, but who he can have the most fun with.

I'm going to guess that this is more of Zorro needing mental stimulation and an alternative action for redirection. Michael Ellis has a wonderful set of DVDs about introducing tugs. One good thing with this behavior is it translates really well to clicker and marker training as the dog is always looking for excitement and the feeling when a good action is marked is rewarding in itself. For those dogs, I prefer a clicker rather than a word marker as the specific and consistent sound triggers an emotion that is very rewarding for the dog.

[Dutchringgirl]

reading between the lines - and with the further info provided in your 2nd post [ that the nipping only happens at certain times - when he is very excited and wants your attention (?) ] - it sounds to me like Zorro is just an overly ''caffeinated'' dog -

then Sadie must be an Espresso dog!!!!!

like Stephanie's Odin or my Xander - that has trouble containing his joy around best friends. given how great he is away from home, i am guessing that he is rapidly turning into a really spectacular DS.

so he really loves you and takes out his love and excitement on you. personally - in this specific case [my best guess] - i think it is not so much that he is trying to be above you in the pecking order, but that he just has not learned that his excesses when super excited are not appropriate. so, if i have understood the situation correctly, i would not want to respond with overkill. Karen's approach is good if you have a crate. also, if you know it is coming on, have treats handy and get him to sit or do some exercises or OB practice that he might like. if you cannot do that timing-wise, teach him ''settle'', or easy/gentle.

my Xander was a real nipper when excited, but each time he did it, i exclaimed ''ouch'' as if hurt and grabbed his snout, saying in a friendly but firm manner, ''no! - careful - easy,'' as i wanted to get across 3 different messages: ''no'' - nipping or biting a human is not allowed, ''careful'' - when being mouthy, take care not to hurt, and ''easy'' - you need to calm down a bit. with him, i never did anything more as i did not want to diminish his really overwhelming desire to please me and to take risks to do so. he is such a spectacular thinker that i want to be careful WHAT i tame. he still gets incredibly excited [too much so], but intentional nipping is not done except maybe a rate of 2 a year when his excitement level goes off the charts even for him. [ but i do not view that as disrespect per se - just love and excitement. ]

teach language [ settle, easy, careful, gentle, go lay down - and i use a french phrase for ''if you wait a bit, you will get what you want'' ] and then be VERY firm in a friendly context. perhaps i am reading too much into the little you have described, but Zorro sounds like he has well-above-average potential; you just have to help him channel that potential and teaching language is a great way to get the maximum out of such a dog.

I agree with Johnnys explanation as it describes Sadie to a "T" when she was younger. I had her on a leash and would stand on it so she would learn to contain herself. For example, when it was time to go for a ride, Sadie would circle the table for ever, so I would stand on her leash and put her in a sit. If she got up, she was self correcting and would have to learn to wait.

Sadie would also air snap and nip in excitment, Teaching her to calm and sooth herself helped with that.

You want to walk the line of teaching him to wait but not killing the drive.

[Z_Mom]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. I think Zorro's main problem is that he doesn't know how to show affection in ways other than biting and clacking. I'm going to work on redirecting him. I'm learning a lot from the posts on this website.