Koda - Dutch Shepherd?

[Agent_99]

This is Koda, I rescued her from the Humane Society when she was a pup. She came from the Merced, CA shelter on a second chance program. Dutch Shepherd? Her right ear is partially missing after an unfortunate attack. They were both upright prior to that incident. I have her DNA test pending. It won't show if she is a Dutch Shepherd however, I suppose it would show up as GSD? She is a large dog, 120 pounds.

[Dutchringgirl]

Her head looks Dutchie and wow, that is a looooooooong tongue !!! From her body shot, its hard to tell, she looks stocky, maybe GSD?

[Sugars Mom]

And 120 lbs is pretty big for a DS...maybe DS/GSD mix?

[Agent_99]

I'll let you guys know when I get the dna back. If she were a dutch shepherd - does that just show as GSD on these dna tests?

[Agent_99]

KodaSide.jpg (385.68 KiB) Viewed 12027 times

Here is a side view.

[johninny]

hopefully the test you used was based on the MARS data base, which is the most comprehensive and accurate. I would determine that first - is it the ''mars panel''. the mars brand definitely is -- but tests that go under other names also use mars, so if it does not say mars you have to look beyond that to see if mars is still the basis.

if so, your results should be fairly good. not sure if DS is in there, but you can look up the mars dna panel to see if DS is in their database so you are prepared. you might even be able to contact them to get guidance on how they think ds would show up if DS is not in their testing base.

if the test you used is not based on the mars panel, then you are facing a much smaller dna library and testing regimen and will likely not find DS in there and are unlikely to get very accurate results.

[Agent_99]

It is the Wisdom Insight test - so yes, the MARS panel/breed library. I'll post the dna results when they come back.

[johninny]

oh that is great. best results you can get. can't wait to hear your results. you are so smart to do that to gain greater understanding of Koda, if only for training.
I so wish I had done that with Tracedog. when he was alive, I did not care what else he had in him; training was not an issue - nothing was an issue. but now I so wish I knew so I could look for it more intelligently in another dog - having a hint of what made him such a special dog.

[Boogies]

Could she be an Akita mix? Brindle is a common color for that breed. They have a shorter nose than most GSD and are described as having a bear like head. They have shorter, more stocky build than the shepherd breeds and a straighter topline. They have curled tails. They are often over 80 pounds.

Nice dogs. My friend had a brindle one in S. California.

[johninny]

akita was my thought also. and they are just as stubborn and loyal as DS. but in the end it is such a guessing game when it comes to an unknown mix. it will be great fun to see what the test says and then we can second-guess that!

[Agent_99]

I definitely considered Akita mix, but her muzzle screams shepherd to me.
I hope the test has some conclusions and I look forward to sharing.
It's fun to guess. <3 Tracedog John, I've seen some of the posted photos and he looks like he was a fantastic friend.

[johninny]

yes, he was the best and closest partner I have ever had. I was extraordinarily lucky to share life with him.
this photo was chosen to be published with an article by a canine health foundation in nyc that was struck by a depth of relationship between us that they had never witnessed before.

[Agent_99]

Here are Koda's results from the Wisdom Insight DNA test.
It's pretty.... interesting. I think she carries a lot of the Shepherd in her. She's a challenging dog and is like no other animal I've ever been best friends with.
Mystery solved, I guess... Since Dutch Shepherd isn't in their "Breed Library" I'll probably never know for sure.

Dna Profile Page

Koda_DNA_1.png (506.18 KiB) Viewed 11966 times

Mixed Breed Analysis

Koda_DNA_2.png (146.32 KiB) Viewed 11966 times

[johninny]

strange results can occur when the correct [ actual/relevant ] breed is not in the database. so do not be misled by this.
her photo on the dna profile page [ that is her, right?] looks much more DS than any other photo you have posted!
without DS in the database, if she has DS behavior and personality, etc, etc, then I would consider her a DS mix. haven't discussed her personality much, but you can certainly get a sense reading postings here. I would be interested in what you conclude.

[Sugars Mom]

It interesting to me how when breeds mix, the results can be pups that are just like their mom, some pups just like their dad, and others that are a mixture of both mom and dad.

I mean, even if you know the parents are, say a Boston Terrier and Golden Retriever, if your dog acts and looks like a Boston, wouldn't you call him a Boston mix?

..so my personal opinion is to call the dog whatever breed actually matches their description and traits/behaviours the best....so yours could certainly be a DS mix, or a Boxer/GSD mix if that seems to fit....or maybe you want to go with Wiemarimer mix

[Revhendo]

Wow, that is pretty interesting. I've never seen one of those tests before. What's involved in that?

[johninny]

having determined that DS is not in the data base [ is Belgian Mal in there?], the whole exercise may be rather useless. I read last year some good articles by scientific sorts that offered analyses of how different results come about. I think I have these referenced somewhere in my files and when I find them or where they are from, I will post them. meanwhile, the mental summary that sticks in my memory, is that without the dog's actual breed registered in their data base, the results turn out to be rather meaningless.
[ mars is the only good one because their data-base is huge compared to others and I believe follows a better methodology [?].] I will try to find these articles as an aid for interpreting Koda's results, but a grain of salt might be in order IF my memory has not also become useless [ big ??? ].
mars is always expanding and DS becoming recognized, so I would wait on further deciphering of DS mixes until the data-base problem is rectified.

[Agent_99]

I emailed them and here was their response:

Thank you for contacting Mars Veterinary, the creators of Wisdom Panel® tests. As we do not have the Dutch Shepherd in our breed database currently, we cannot say if Koda has this breed in her ancestry. We periodically add new breeds so this may be a breed in the works for future versions of our Wisdom Panel® test. If you see this breed added to our database later on please let us know as we may be able to use Koda's DNA profile to check for it. It is possible that Koda has this breed in her mix as there are some mixed breed tags and German Shepherd detected.

The test, they send you the instructions and a mailing envelope -
you just take two swabs of the inner cheek and mail them in and wait for the results, it's great!
The Belgian Malinois breed is in their database.