Nipping/Growling at Children

[Lori_C]

Hello all. I am Lori and new to the Dutch breed and we live in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. This is Kye who is now 7 months old (we've only had her for just under 2 months). She is a smaller DS and I'm thinking this probably isn't a negative...she is SO energetic! If anyone has any recommendations for training, specifically nipping 3-5 year old kids, please let me know. We have 4 young family members that she is just not adjusting to. The minute any of them walk into the room, she runs towards them, growling and biting at them, even has grabbed onto their clothes. We've tried putting Kye in another room, bring the kids the main room and then bring Kye in and the moment she see's them she starts growling. We know none of them have done anything to provoke this behavior as we have monitored all interactions extremely close. Needless to say the children are terrified of her. I've tried researching it and can't find any help. I really dislike muzzles but at this point it's either that or lock her up while any kids are here and that's really not what we want, we want her to be a loving family dog. Thank you all for any and all suggestions/recommendations!

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[Dutchringgirl]

first thing to do is put a long leash [drag line] on her and she will be attatched to you 27/7 unless she goes into her crate. When the kids come in the room with her, make sure the kids understand [ i know it hard with little ones] that they stay away from her and dont look at her. Make sure Kye is in a down or sit when the kids come in and dont let her run up to the kids. step on the leash if you are doing something that you cant hold her. Tell the kids to not show fear and keep their hands quiet. Mine will be all over with their hands and Sadie will follow the hands looking for treats and it escalates to the kids running and sadie following [ everyone is laughing but me]

Remember, DS's are herding dogs, they see the kids [ and us] as something to heard. Sadie herds the kids all of the time and circles me alot too.

Do your best to keep everyone under control and quiet.

[Dutchringgirl]

Sorry, Welcome and Kye is beautiful. Sometimes I just get down to business and skip over the niceties.

[Raven]

What Lisa said about everyone remaining calm, especially you and your husband. Important stuff. Whether in this situation or another, if your voice/body language/tension on the leash shows stress, Kye will pick up on it and will think there's reason to react. Also like Lisa said...easier said than done.

[Lori_C]

Thank you Lisa! I will certainly give that a try! Thank you as well Sharon for the feedback!

[Dutchringgirl]

great ! Cant wait for the update ! It will take a bit for her to catch on so dont get frustrated. Be firm and consistent !!

Oh, you can also try this. when you know the kids are coming in, have a toy or treat or what ever she likes and have her look at you and let the kids walk around for a bit, then reward her for paying attention to you. Use the word " look" so she will learn that when you say that, her attention should go to you.

[Raven]

Meant to mention this earlier. You replied in your intro that Kye "lost" interest in marker training, which sounds like you may have as well. I wouldn't give up on marker training. It's highly effective. (And especially at her age and being new to you, she'll try to figure out how easily she gets what she wants--or how easily you give up.) What we don't teach, we train. If you need more information on marker training (timing, what do I do when?, etc.), check out Michael Ellis.

And as long as I'm here, I'm might as well mention the DVD "Crate Games" by Susan Garret. Many of us here are big fans of it and recommend it often. (Garret also has her own website, or did the last I knew.)

Updates, please!

[Dutchringgirl]

When you do marker training, no more than 3 seconds should go by before the mark. the sooner the better, maybe that is why she lost interest?

[centrop67]

I became a DS owner by accident. After bringing Radar into my home, I had to research like crazy. I've read dozens of dog behavior books, I've worked with a professional trainer, I've watched countless videos, and read even more articles (not to mention as many threads on this forum as I could). That being said, I am STILL learning. I don't want to present myself as an expert, but I can provide some things that worked with Radar.

First, I wouldn't give up on marker training. In fact, instead of training make it a game. You can do this in really short sessions - 5-15 minutes a day when you are alone with him. Every time he does ANY desirable behavior click/mark and treat. I got this started after doing relaxation training with my trainer.

We started with a towel on the ground. I brought Radar to the towel and asked him to down. He was clicked/treated if he stayed for increasing lengths of time, if he put his head down, and/or if he sighed/relaxed in any notable fashion. If he got up, we brought him back to the towel.

The relaxation training slowly graduated to redirection at crazy hour or any other time I needed a calmer dog.

It's funny that now whenever Radar is having a problem with me (I am not understanding his needs), he'll get in front of me, lay down, and put his chin on the ground.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Welcome! I'm also located in DFW. Kye is adorable! Hendrix about her age too. He can get wound up around kids - part of that is their energy and his sensitivity to energy. Marker training is fantastic and everyone has given fantastic advice. I would only take on as a reminder to take things slow and be confident. Work with one kid and Kye at a time if it's easier. With Hendrix if a bunch of kids want to pet him I have them back up and do it one at a time. Less chaotic. Good luck and keep us updated!!!

[Lori_C]

Thank you all, this is not only a learning process for Kye but for me too!

Sharon & Lisa-thank you for the positive feedback. Yes I had somewhat given up on the marker training but as of yesterday we've started again. I try to mark right away but I can admit more than 3 seconds could have gone by when I previously tried. I'm doing better this go around...I guess there's training required for both of us

Karen-I'm going to certainly look into that relaxation training....that would really be great during Kye's "crazy times"!

[Raven]

Yea for you and marker training!

I use a strong, quick "Yes!" that's different in the way I otherwise say the word. It catches their attention while it's said differently enough for them not to get confused when you're replying to the husband, kids, etc. (When I first began marker training, if I replied "yes" to my staff, it came out sounding like I was home training a dog. )

You can use a more unique word as long as it's quick/catchy and everyone uses the word for any training.

As training progresses and Kye is older and more accustomed/receptive to training sessions, you don't have to be so quick to reward (versus mark) the desired behavior, though I believe most experts claim that, even at that stage of training, no more than five or six seconds should pass between the mark and reward.

[centrop67]

As an FYI, I completely understand the confusion in my signature, but I (Michael) usually post to this forum. I listed my name last as not to offend those with Grammar Pedantry Syndrome -> https://illinois.edu/blog/view/25/76120

I use a strong, quick "Yes!" that's different in the way I otherwise say the word.

I am sorry I forgot about this. It's important to have a secondary verbal cue (unless you want to clip a clicker to yourself 24/7).

We also use "yes" as a secondary cue, but we emphasize and draw out the "s" --> Yesssssss!

Funny that my wife and I also communicate exclamations of agreement or satisfaction in that same way now. And, of course, Radar comes looking for his treat.