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What should i look for?

General "standards" discussion not specifically related to the coat variety
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AidenLikesTea
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Tell us about yourself: Hello, I'm Aiden. Trying to learn more about the DS as i'm looking into getting one

What should i look for?

Post by AidenLikesTea » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:10 pm

Hello all

My family and I are looking into getting a DS. What do we need to look for temperment wise for a family with a 3 year old and also want to train it for a psychological disorder service dog?
But the ears tho!

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Dutchringgirl
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Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
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Re: What should i look for?

Post by Dutchringgirl » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:20 pm

Hi! May I ask why you are looking for a DS for a Service dog? what disorder may I ask? You dont have to answer if that is to personal.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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AidenLikesTea
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Tell us about yourself: Hello, I'm Aiden. Trying to learn more about the DS as i'm looking into getting one

Re: What should i look for?

Post by AidenLikesTea » Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:39 am

Thanks for the reply!

It has been a breed i've always liked but also my therapist recomended this breed. For adult autism and ptsd.
But the ears tho!

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Owned-By-Hendrix
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Re: What should i look for?

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:23 am

I would shy away from shepherds for PTSD/autism work. There's a very select few who can handle it but it took from what owners have said a very long time searching to find the right candidate. Shepherds, especially DS, have strong protection instincts and are VERY VERY VERY in-tune to their owners and others - this is sometimes not something you can train out of. Not saying it's impossible, but there are strong character traits I would be aware of when evaluating. Just curious, does your therapist have hands on experience training and living with multiple DS? It's not often I hear them specifically recommended for psych service dogs.
Kay
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)

AidenLikesTea
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Tell us about yourself: Hello, I'm Aiden. Trying to learn more about the DS as i'm looking into getting one

Re: What should i look for?

Post by AidenLikesTea » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:27 am

Im not sure if they have a ds, but they have been doing service dog training for years. And she said as long as is it not of of police work lines then it should be fine. idk that's just what i've been told
But the ears tho!

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Owned-By-Hendrix
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Re: What should i look for?

Post by Owned-By-Hendrix » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:00 am

But all DS are from "police lines" in some way or another, unless you find an FCI dog with a clean bloodline and that doesn't assure workability nor nerve. Not trying to sway you just give you all the info you need. I know it is expensive to owner train an SD and would hate for you to possibly need to wash out due to something inherent in the breed.

DS were bred for high prey drive, suspicion to strangers, protection, endurance, independence and yet bonding to only one person. They are highly attuned to emotional responses and will get defensive/protective. They are not necessarily family dogs - they can exist in a family structure but will only take commands from/truly respect their person. They are very very very smart and can/will be stubborn. A lot do not warm up to strangers. They get bored and must be engaged a lot whether through training, work, or sport. Their needs must be met daily or else they turn destructive. I know a lot of this is "read it before" type info, but there's three traits that I've heard lots of others in the SD community refer to as "deal breakers" when talking about DS - 1) their high protection instincts, 2) their keying in to emotional signals from handler, and 3) their tendacy to not be genetically wired to be submissive to anyone but their handler. From what I understand of psych SD work, which is far from expansive so take this with a grain of salt, you want a dog that will not feed into your emotions and make decisions off your emotions, like if you get nervous the dog is looking for the threat. Obviously PTSD dog are task trained to detect certain signals to respond to, and other work, but overall they need to be independent of your emotions, not in tune and influenced by them.

Now obviously there are dogs that do not match this description and have the kind of personality perfect for SD work. I know of three Mals and two DS SD but the handlers admit it took a long time to find them and some even got lucky. However, it goes beyond just having "no police blood" (which honestly even isn't a real quality predictor of anything in the long run) in them and as a puppy it's quite a gamble with this breed as their drives don't fully kick in until after 6 months. I've handled Mals that would have made awesome SDs from police lines - they were older though.

My best advice to you would be to talk to a lot of well known breeders, other DS SD handlers, and start learning about which dogs produce lower drive dogs more attuned for SD work. Maybe an older dog with known temperament would be better, maybe a rescue, or maybe a puppy. Research the lines. I know it is highly suggested to have your trainer evaluate the puppy before purchase, and I would work with a breeder who is aware of what is needed in an SD. You will pay more but you are getting a better dog. I know Cher Car has placed at least one SD, with training if I'm not mistaken, if not more.

Not trying to be rude at all, but unless your therapist has worked, trained, and placed at least 5 full blooded DS, I would disregard her opinion at the moment. If she has done 5 or more discuss what breeding a she liked or breeders she would recommend. I only suggest this because many who have never heard of a DS before think "German shepherd except brindled" and it is very far from the reality of it.

I hope some of this is useful to you. I also hope I do not come off as rude or insensitive. I know it is incredibly tough and a road full of unknowns in choosing an SD and only wish to provide you with as much information as you need to make a decision.
Kay
(Pepper's Look-A-Like)
(Tyson's Soul Twin)

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Dutchringgirl
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Re: What should i look for?

Post by Dutchringgirl » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:16 pm

I would also say that a DS would not make a good dog for this work. unless you have years of dog training and this type of training, I would say a DS would not be for you. Liking this breed and having/working this breed are two different things.

They are high drive and Like Kira said, all from police lines.

Kira really said it well
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Re: What should i look for?

Post by cordeliandemon » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:44 pm

i wouldnt bring a DS into a family with a 3 year old or any kids that arnt emotionally mature and in their teens. there are alot of other breeds that would be better suited for what you need.
as my vet recently said of demon
" be careful with him... dont let him near any children"
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AidenLikesTea
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Tell us about yourself: Hello, I'm Aiden. Trying to learn more about the DS as i'm looking into getting one

Re: What should i look for?

Post by AidenLikesTea » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:42 pm

Thanks for the advice and info everyone!

I talked to the breeder and the trainer and brought up what you guys have said. They said my therapist doesn't seem to know much about the ds breed. But they said they have placed several dogs that have been autism trained sd. And that if they are socialized with children they will be fine. My son will be 4 by the time the dog is full time living with us (it will go through a year of training and we will only get to see in for weekend visits)
But the ears tho!

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Dutchringgirl
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Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
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Re: What should i look for?

Post by Dutchringgirl » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:54 pm

Why a DS though, there are so many other breeds that are proven to be great for this type of work.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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Jvega_21
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Tell us about yourself: I was given my Dutch about 5 months ago. He is a handful but I love him and will keep training. He is a year old and I'm training him to be a service dog.
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Re: What should i look for?

Post by Jvega_21 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:18 pm

I was given my DS back in Sept. I was looking for a dog to train as a PTSD service dog. I didn't know anything about the breed when he was given to me, but he is a pure breed. I have been told by my trainer that my DS doesn't act like a regular DS, and by reading through the forum I would agree. My pup displays a lot of the traits described but not to many. He is very protective of me, but unlike mentioned a lot, my pup does very well with children. The person that gave him to me didn't have children, and neither do I but when I bring him around my nieces and nephews he does fine. My nieces and nephew age ranges from 3-8. He loves the boys.
I would agree with the exercise required for this breed. Within the first week he destroyed my couch. Not his fault though, I didn't know his needs. The next day I started taking him to daycare. He absolutely loves it there. He gets the exercise he needs and gets to play with other pups. Meeting his exercise needs has also helped with training. We've been training for a couple of months now and he is doing very well. I've been able to get out more since having him. I did not seek out a DS specifically to train as my PTSD service dog but he's worked out great. There's another veteran in the program that also has a DS and he's worked well for him as well so it is possible.

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Re: What should i look for?

Post by LyonsFamily » Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:05 pm

I would contact CherCar in Michigan. I too think a DS isn't a good option for a service dog or a home with young children, but Cheryl would give you honest answers if any of her dogs could do it. That would probably be my only choice for 1. a trainer/breeder experienced enough with the breed and service dogs to know what she's giving you and 2. more family oriented lines that have placed proven service dogs.
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dawg
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Re: What should i look for?

Post by dawg » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:39 am

There are dogs specialised and selected for therapy type work. As far as I know the DS is not one of them.

My preference is save a dog's life and pull a suitable prospect from rescue and forget breed.

Mark77
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Re: What should i look for?

Post by Mark77 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:09 pm

No way can a child as the OP is asking specifically about, can ever be an alpha. As such that would inviting disaster by placing a DS with a special needs child.

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Dutchringgirl
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Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
Location: Ct, USA
Contact:

Re: What should i look for?

Post by Dutchringgirl » Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:03 pm

I read the OP as the dog will be a service dog and the family has a 3 yo, not that the dog will be the service dog FOR the 3yo. Maybe the OP can clear it up.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
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AidenLikesTea
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Tell us about yourself: Hello, I'm Aiden. Trying to learn more about the DS as i'm looking into getting one

Re: What should i look for?

Post by AidenLikesTea » Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:44 pm

Dutchringgirl wrote:I read the OP as the dog will be a service dog and the family has a 3 yo, not that the dog will be the service dog FOR the 3yo. Maybe the OP can clear it up.
the service dog would be for me...not my child
But the ears tho!

MultiPurposeK9
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Re: What should i look for?

Post by MultiPurposeK9 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:54 am

Be selective in breeder and dog. The key will be finding the dog with enough drive to work but, not over the top. I would stick with Cher Car as a breeder to start with and let them test litters. Not all Dutch Shepherds are high drive dogs with over the top fight drive, we have Dutchies here who show no interest in sleeves or suits but, do well as single purpose odor detection dogs. These dogs are very social and stable, with people and children.
Roger
Consistency + Repetition = Predictability

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