Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

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Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby Jbou » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:40 pm

Hello,
I would like to know if their are any breeds of DS in the USA or canada ?

I would orfer to find one here in America if not I will import one from Europ.

I want a pup with registration as i will work with him and showing him here in canada and Europ later.

Also anyone could told m the diffrnce betwen FCI and KNVG ? what I understand : FCI is the registration and KNVG is a working sport so only a title .
I am right ?

Thank you for your time,

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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby vneerland » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:57 pm

Would you be kind enough to first post a little info about yourself in the 'new member announcement' section please? :?
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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby Jbou » Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:00 am

It's done,

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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby CaroleBoaz » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:11 pm

Jbou wrote:Also anyone could told m the diffrnce betwen FCI and KNVG ? what I understand : FCI is the registration and KNVG is a working sport so only a title .


It seems like you understand. FCI dogs are purebred and pedigreed dogs. Sometimes they are pets, but sometimes they are working ( or sport) dogs.

KNPV dogs might be purebred, but more likely they are mixed because the Police wanted a heavier dog.
Here is the history of the KNPV. http://www.sevenpineskennel.com/knpv_history.htm

There are some breeders in the US and Canada of working dogs. Just Google "Dutch Shepherd Breeders". These breeders breed primarily working dogs, but sometimes have a puppy suitable for a pet home. There are a small number of breeders of long-coat and rough-coat FCi dogs, but litters are not often.

I have a FCI "pet" dog. Neither parents did any IPO work. But the father has some IPO3 dogs in his pedigree. We are working in obedience and agility, primarily. And I show him in conformation, also.

Likely, somebody else can elaborate if you have further questions. Because, I only have a passing knowledge of the subject.
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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby CaroleBoaz » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:18 pm

Also, the Dutch Shepherd can be registered in the Canadian Kennel Club (CKC) in Canada, but not the American Kennel Club (AKC). The United Kennel Club (UKC) in the US can register.

If you are looking for a dog in Europe, the NHC website lists all the breedings under Fokkerij - Pupinfo. It is in Dutch.
http://www.hollandseherder.nl/sub/fokkerij/
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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby vneerland » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:51 pm

Welcome here Josee. 8-)
FCI stands for Federacion Cynologique Internationale. It is a pedigree registry. KNPV stands for Koninklijke Nederlandse Politiehond Vereniging, translated Royal Dutch Police Dog Association. Their members breed dogs for work and do not typically select for anything but work. Looks are secondary.
http://www.sevenpineskennel.com/dutch_s ... istory.htm
There are FCI DS's (=Dutch Shepherds) that work in KNPV, but not many and one may assume that they come from the KNPV genepool to begin with. There are some FCI dogs in the USA, and 99% of the working ones are KNPV offspring, either openly or via false papers. AKC (American kennel club) does not recognize the Dutch Shepherd, so most DS's in the USA would be UKC (united Kennel club) I am not sure how UKC papers of an FCI dog would transfer to CKC. You would probably have to have a seperate FCI registry to confirm FCI lineage, since you want to show in conformation in Canada. And of course, the fact that a dog has FCI papers does not make it a winning show dog yet. I don't know what your primary goal would be. If it is to win shows, you might need to import a pure FCI show line pup. If you want a good chance of a working dog with show talent on the side, you might be able to stay at this side of the Atlantic, provided you pick the breeder/parents of your pup wisely.
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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby Jbou » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:13 pm

Hello everybody,

here at the CKC the only Dutch shepherd rcogniz is the "Shappendoes" not the DS that I want :-(

The only way to show DS is with the FCC ( work with FCI) or at the ABIDS show in Ontario.

Anyway, I want a nice DS. I'm in touch with a few European breeders but if I can found one in USA or Canada with FCI registration I will be really happy.

Regards,

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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby CaroleBoaz » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:57 pm

I forgot about the Shappendoes. Very cute dogs, but very different.

The CKC website said "Dutch Sheepdog", so I thought DS. My mistake.
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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby Choochi » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:13 pm

CaroleBoaz wrote:Also, the Dutch Shepherd can be registered in the Canadian Kennel Club (CKC) in Canada, but not the American Kennel Club (AKC). The United Kennel Club (UKC) in the US can register.


Nope, you got it backwards. AKC recognizes Dutchies, and you can show them in AKC. CKC does not recognize the breed at all, not even as a misc or pending status. There is no Canadian breed club.

OP, there are LOTS and LOTS of Dutchie breeders both in US and Canada. I have no idea how you are searching for them if you haven't been able to come across even one! Maybe if you're only looking in the back of main stream dog magazines.. but a quick online search and many pop up.

If you're interested in buying a DS to participate in dog sports and also be able to show, you should get in touch with CherCar Kennels. They do both with their dogs. However, if your plan is to do this in Canada and Europe, forget your plans unless you are willing to change your plans to US and Europe. As I mentioned, CKC does not recognize this breed, your only hope would be the misc fringe associations, and quite frankly I don't think the Dutchies belong in the show ring. I hope they never gain CKC recognition.
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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby Choochi » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:20 pm

wait.. I might stand corrected.. I was trying to find what AKC group they are in and I don't think they are recognized by them either. I think CherCar must be showing them in UKC??
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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby Christie M » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Choochi wrote:wait.. I might stand corrected.. I was trying to find what AKC group they are in and I don't think they are recognized by them either. I think CherCar must be showing them in UKC??


That's correct. There are a few people who show their dogs in UKC, including CherCar kennels. But those dogs are not FCI and I am not sure that they would meet the FCI standard. I don't mean that in any negative way. The dogs are beautiful and have great conformation, but they are out of mostly KNPV stock.
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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby Choochi » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:45 pm

Christie M wrote:
Choochi wrote:wait.. I might stand corrected.. I was trying to find what AKC group they are in and I don't think they are recognized by them either. I think CherCar must be showing them in UKC??


That's correct. There are a few people who show their dogs in UKC, including CherCar kennels. But those dogs are not FCI and I am not sure that they would meet the FCI standard. I don't mean that in any negative way. The dogs are beautiful and have great conformation, but they are out of mostly KNPV stock.



That makes sense to me, one of their dogs (who I don't see on their site any more) was a half sister to my Ripp and I wondered about that.
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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby CaroleBoaz » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:05 pm

Choochi wrote:wait.. I might stand corrected.. I was trying to find what AKC group they are in and I don't think they are recognized by them either. I think CherCar must be showing them in UKC??


Now you have it.

I called the AKC to ask if there was anyway I could show my DS in the companion/performance events. They said that the only way is to neuter and register as a mixed breed.

Cheryl Carlson and also a few people on the east coast show in UKC. She does not have FCI lines, but I saw someplace that she just recently imported a new puppy from Europe.

I have shown in UKC, but as of yet, I have not had any competition. There are no other DS at my shows. Maybe next summer. ;)

I also show in the IABCA (International All Breed). They use the FCI standard, and in addition to ranking the dogs in the ring, the dogs get graded against the breed standard; V-1 (best), V-2, V-3, V-4, SG, G(ood), F(air), P(oor), M(disqualifing). During these shows I am asked to sit in a chair while the judge goes over the breed standard and compares my dog. Then I get a copy of the written critique from the judge on all the different parts of the dog. That's how Boaz got his IntCH. But it's not as good as an FCI CH title. I got it for having 3 V-1s

Sorry, got carried away. :)
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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby Jbou » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:03 am

Hi,
Happily in Canada all FCI breed ( registered) can be shown at the FCC show (CFC: Canadian Federation Canin) at those shows all judges are FCI judges and came directly from Europ.

This is why I'm so stick to have a DS with FCI paper.

Those shows are closely to FCI shows as judges gave written comment on the dog.
You need 3 CAC excellent to earn CFC CH., after 15 months old
After you can earn CFC.CH Elite again you need 3 CACIB excellent.

I had make this title with many dogs : standard schnauzers, basenjis and soon with a DS ;)

I know also ABIDS show in Ontario, but I never had to opportunity to show there yet.

Enjoy your weekend,

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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby vneerland » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:03 am

Josee,
Marjolein (on this board) has some FCI pups on the way. I know she is not in the USA (she lives in Germany) but maybe it would still be what you are looking for? Not sure what kind of work you want to do, but I am sure that Marjolein would be honest about her dogs abilities.
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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby Jbou » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:12 am

Thank again Judith,

if you have the link of marjolein it will be easier for me :-)

I don't have any problem to import dogs from USA and Europ with years I'm use to do it from many country : USA,Russia, Czech Rep, Italy, France, Hungary and Germany.

I'm looking for a DS nice structure to be shown but also high drive to work in Ring, ScH, obedience, agility, conformation, rally-O.
I believe that it,s possible to find beauty and brain in DS world.

But to make what I want I need a FCI DS.

I'm open to any view and after I'll need all of you to coach me a little bite with my DS :-)

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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby vneerland » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:25 am

Jbou wrote:Thank again Judith,
if you have the link of marjolein it will be easier for me :-)


I don't have a link, but The kennelname is 'met streepjes' but she is on the list, check 'members' at the top of your page, go to M and you will find her (Marjolein) You can send her a PM.
She has pure FCI, no KNPV influence in her dogs. They may not leap tall buildings :oops: when it comes to work, but I know she is active with her dogs in several sports. I see no problem with Obedience, agility, conformation or Rally.

As some general advice. Seek a pup out of parents that can do what you want your pup to do. I doubt you will find a (pure FCI) pup out of parents that do everthing you want to do, but you can select for what is most important to you. I get the feeling that you are most at home around the show and obedience world, with protection work as a second? That is how I would select the breeder then.
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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby Jbou » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:04 am

Hi,
I want a good looking Ds but I will be able to show at a very limit show.

But to be able, to earn working title I need a FCI paper dog.

I'm an active member of my local Sch club and close to a very good Ring club too.

A FCI pup with high drive prey and defense for RING and ScH will be more than appreciate.

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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby vneerland » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:13 pm

Names like Fonds de Gueule, McKallahan, Havrevingens, LeDobry come to mind.
Their lines are FCI, but with KNPV dogs mixed in, some openly, others not.
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Re: Dutch breeders in USA and info FCI/KNVG

Postby Jbou » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:16 am

Hi Judith,

I'm in touch with some French breeder, see what will happen ! ;)

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