Considering getting a DS...should we?

[TimL_168]

A lesson learned for me now. Thanks Tim.

How so?

[centrop67]

Tim, I never thought or heard about training that, and I like it.

[ICE]

Oh how I wish 95% of the population that get these kinds of dogs would understand that simple way of training. They are big enough and scary enough in full bark mode or even silent guard mode to make anyone think twice in approaching. Why give the dog the responsibility to decide what is a threat or what is not. I love that ICE can only bite if I tell him he can. He NEVER gets to decide. I do understand there are a select few people out there that may need a true protection dog but most of us just need a deterrent.

[Mark77]

I'm not a trainer, just an owner who did personal protection dog training with a professional protection sport dog trainer. A personal protection dog is trained to alert and then attack on command. If you want to get into more specifics talk to a protection dog trainer.

[TheVII]

To answer about leaving dog in a crate, the process would be very gradual, initially we plan to have the crate by the bedside during night times as well. We hope that it'll be her safe spot not a prison. Maybe leave her a kong toy in there, or strips of frozen meat so she could entertain herself there.

Oh how I wish 95% of the population that get these kinds of dogs would understand that simple way of training. They are big enough and scary enough in full bark mode or even silent guard mode to make anyone think twice in approaching. Why give the dog the responsibility to decide what is a threat or what is not. I love that ICE can only bite if I tell him he can. He NEVER gets to decide. I do understand there are a select few people out there that may need a true protection dog but most of us just need a deterrent.

Amen to that, I want the dog to be aggressive only on command. No random snapping. We have also discussed a trainer, which we would definitely get.

Girlfriend really got excited when she found out these dogs can be used in SAR, she wants to focus on that, to possibly give back to the community. Especially in light of recent events in Florida.

Had a bit of a bittersweet experience this Friday. Our friends got a beautiful Doberman. Neither my friend nor her husband had working dogs before. And unfortunately it really shows, from yelling to swinging slippers at her for not following commands and playing around. The dog is just a pup still, and she was excited to play with new people, wanted attention because there is also a baby in the house. She wasn't rough, or destructive in her play. Probably didn't even realized why she was yelled at because majority of the time when she didn't respond right the way, her owners were obstructed from her view. She did pick up on basic commands, like heel and out so quickly and naturally though, feels like so much lost potential, such a wonderful animal... On a bright side It was great to see my girlfriend who never owned the dog, pick up on 99% of the issues, without me having to point them out.

[Tim91118]

So have you decided to pursue your dreams of owning and training a Dutch Shepherd, or will you wait a bit and gather more on the pros and cons list ?

[ladyjubilee]

I think SAR would be great. Bramble does a variation on search. She has been trained to find her boy. Fortunately we have had to formally use the skill, though she did find him for me the other day when I panicked. He was where he was supposed to me, I wasn't. They both looked at me like I was crazy!

Anyway, even if not official SAR team, the skill can still benefit the community.

[TheVII]

So have you decided to pursue your dreams of owning and training a Dutch Shepherd, or will you wait a bit and gather more on the pros and cons list ?

Let's just say, I'm so excited I don't want to say anything... not to jinx it...can't believe I'm still this superstitious at my age...but there few details left to iron out...

I think it is safe to say though, we did decide to get a Dutch Shepherd puppy if we can find the right one.

[TheVII]

I think SAR would be great. Bramble does a variation on search. She has been trained to find her boy. Fortunately we have had to formally use the skill, though she did find him for me the other day when I panicked. He was where he was supposed to me, I wasn't. They both looked at me like I was crazy!

Anyway, even if not official SAR team, the skill can still benefit the community.

You just carry on! It was a training exercise, you were testing the system!

But, honestly that's probably a skill that's going to come in more handy than attacking a man, at least in civilian life. As been said before menacing look is enough deterant for most situations. Plus the thought of having to choke out a dog, my dog, doesn't really sit well by me. Then again you don't learn to fight without getting hit... so I wouldn't judge as long as it's not dog abuse.

[ladyjubilee]

There is definitely a line. One of the things we teach Bramble is to enjoy being "hit". She is a tough girl and in her work she is going to get hit. Its just a side effect of living with someone who has severe autism. We teach it as a game, much like the rough and tumble play of dogs.

[TheVII]

There is definitely a line. One of the things we teach Bramble is to enjoy being "hit". She is a tough girl and in her work she is going to get hit. Its just a side effect of living with someone who has severe autism. We teach it as a game, much like the rough and tumble play of dogs.

The more I read about the potential of these dogs the more I'm...I guess humbled is the word...

[TheVII]

So...lots to update and mention.

We got our little Moxie, from Natalie and Joe Wright in Minneapolis. The breeder said that after interviewing us, taking our experience, there are 3 pups she wouldn't give to us, as they would be too much. But, she had a girl who she thinks would be perfect for us

Their dogs are AKC, FCI registered. Which essentially means there are no knpv, mal, gsd mixed in (at least 3 generations from what I've seen on the pedigree). I know that, some people snub the FCI vs working lines. But, in our case it actually might be better.

Moxie's mum is from De las Flores, and dad is an import from Serbia. Dame has been shown in compliance before, and on sire side the grand dad has multiple competitions and wins.

Both dad and mum actually do day to day work on a farm. Their working pups are going to service dog, SAR, TSA I think.

We took her to our handler. And she did very well, he's really trying to sell us on a full body guard package for her ($30k). Probably not going that route. Still nice to hear praise.

We just had her for less than 24 hours. She definitely had strong food drive. Play drive is there, and the handler said she has a health play drive. We just probably need to find the right toys, and give her more time to adjust to time changes.

She's really adorable, and is bonding real fast, we are very happy so far. I'll keep posting updates. So far she's been pretty awesome pup. I keep preparing myself for the worst, but we'll see.

I can rumble on, but so far we are just full of excitement and emotions. So, I just wanted to put an update now that she's finally home.

[centrop67]

She's a little cutie. don't let those looks let her get away with everything.

[ICE]

Enjoy the ride, it really can be fun and rewarding for you and the pup.

[TheVII]

She's actually very well behaved so far (as much as pup can be who can't go outside beforeher shots). Something tells me it's because she's getting used to new environment and the time change. The beast is just sleeping for now I think.

[ladyjubilee]

Congratulations:)

[Mark77]

Find a protection sport club now; French Ring, Shutzhund, PSA whatever. If the trainer isn't working with groups of people actively competing and titling dogs in protection sports then they aren't doing anything you can't do yourself with some Leerburg training videos. Do all the training through the club from obedience to protection sport training. This is crucial because if you decide later to compete and earn a title you need the foundational obedience to be at least on a competition quality level. I learned that the hard way. There would be annual membership dues and perhaps an additional fee for the initial obedience training. Finally, if your dog is eligible for FCI registration then you should be able to register with UKC which here in the states would open up additional club type sports.

[TheVII]

Thanks guys. Moxie's energy level is ramping up. We are still able to keep her entertained indoors, but really cannot wait to take her outside. An hour inside is definitely not doing a dent in her morning excitement. But, she's asleep after 2.5 to 3 hours now.

Find a protection sport club now; French Ring, Shutzhund, PSA whatever. If the trainer isn't working with groups of people actively competing and titling dogs in protection sports then they aren't doing anything you can't do yourself with some Leerburg training videos. Do all the training through the club from obedience to protection sport training. This is crucial because if you decide later to compete and earn a title you need the foundational obedience to be at least on a competition quality level. I learned that the hard way. There would be annual membership dues and perhaps an additional fee for the initial obedience training. Finally, if your dog is eligible for FCI registration then you should be able to register with UKC which here in the states would open up additional club type sports.

We will look into it. She's definitely FCI eligible. That was/is the plan as we want her to have some job/task/purpose and a club would be great for continued education/work.

The guy we went to is a bit...condescending to sports...he trains working dogs. He is actually published apparently. He is former military officer, who trained handlers to train dogs. But, we aren't probably getting that training. His basic plan involves sport level obedience and protection according to him...I'm not sure that's the level you are talking about.

[Mark77]

My trainer was training police dogs, protection dogs, and protection sport dogs. Sure police dogs and protection dogs aren't titled but the same training would yield protection sport titled dogs if warranted. That's my point, get with a club, get the dog going through their obedience program and then maybe start doing a protection sport. Long term, your dog would enjoy training with a group sport than just dealing with you and the trainer alone. They like going to class with other dogs. They get to see other dogs, they have fun, it's also good for socializing them which is very important as well.

[TheVII]

Yeah, I'm checking alternatives. This guys program is 3 days at his training center with other dogs one day we and the dig train together. Then, 3 days at home with homework where we video what we do. After that back to him for 3 days and repeat of cycle.

I am googling other options thought. As in clubs.