Advise from trainer and vet

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Tennessee3
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Re: Advise from trainer and vet

Post by Tennessee3 »

Joxgirl wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:12 pmThank you.
No problem.

Like Steve said on page 1 he is a bit dramatic at times especially his story posts, but a solid trainer.

He really helped me re-shape my methods for engagement play both actions wise and the priority I place on it and I’ve seen very good returns from both my dogs.
Nicholas

Millie WLGSD in training for Schutzhund 5/27/17 & Grendel KNPV lines Malinois same + PP work 2/15/18

...... Mals are tan dutchies, right?

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Re: Advise from trainer and vet

Post by Susannah »

Mark77 wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:49 am Nothing wrong with this breed as a pet. Not all of them are owned by police or military so a lot individuals have experience with the breed. They are very loving, loyal dogs but require a lot of structure and time- which most people can't give them. They are fine around people if socialized properly. They should be trained in obedience at the very least- otherwise don't bother owning one. They have tons of energy so they won't do well if left alone nor without a lot of exercise but having more than one helps get them enough exercise running around the yard together. They can also do well at many other activities. Saw a Malinois on TV compete in a frisbee catching contest- the dog did great. What I figured out is that they are a very intelligent breed (Mal's and Dutchies being essentially the same dog) so it's more about interacting and learning a new activity that doesn't necessarily have to focus on just bite work. I was a first time Dutchie/Mal owner, now have three of these dogs. However now after seven years, I wouldn't own any other breed of dog.


Malinois Frizbee catching champion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb0fwgAStpk




Have to say again, that outside eu these dogs tend to be more like mal. Here, the longhaired exbl is more couch material. Mine is like that, tons of energy... Not. Everyday i just hop over dog who sleeps here and there. She does things with high intensity with me but doing nothing is great for her too. We work with tracking 1 time a weeks, and inside i just trained her to get my socks off when i say so, this she learned just in half an hour.
But yes alert have to be, since she is territorial. New washing machine what sellers came to bring was fine, but old away? No. Dog went infront of the door snarling like grazy. So stealers are nono.
Mal i would get ever, i also dont like hyper dogs.
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Dutchringgirl
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Re: Advise from trainer and vet

Post by Dutchringgirl »

Mark77 wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:49 am Nothing wrong with this breed as a pet.
This is the information that gets cats killed and people bitten. There is a lot wrong with this breed as pets. they are not a pet breed, they are a working breed. The Ds that you see all happy as pets are mixex or just a brindle dog. If someone had Sadie and wanted her as a pet..... they probably would have either given her back , and that would have made her worse,or put her down. She is a super high drive dog.

They are not pets.
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Re: Advise from trainer and vet

Post by Mark77 »

Susannah wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:35 pm
Have to say again, that outside eu these dogs tend to be more like mal. Here, the longhaired exbl is more couch material. Mine is like that, tons of energy... Not. Everyday i just hop over dog who sleeps here and there. She does things with high intensity with me but doing nothing is great for her too. We work with tracking 1 time a weeks, and inside i just trained her to get my socks off when i say so, this she learned just in half an hour.
But yes alert have to be, since she is territorial. New washing machine what sellers came to bring was fine, but old away? No. Dog went infront of the door snarling like grazy. So stealers are nono.
Mal i would get ever, i also dont like hyper dogs.
It sounds like you have an FCI lines Dutchie and not a working KNPV lines DS. You keep saying all long haired Dutchies are just like your dog- when that isn't necessarily true.


Dutchringgirl wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:41 pm This is the information that gets cats killed and people bitten. There is a lot wrong with this breed as pets. they are not a pet breed, they are a working breed. The Ds that you see all happy as pets are mixex or just a brindle dog. If someone had Sadie and wanted her as a pet..... they probably would have either given her back , and that would have made her worse,or put her down. She is a super high drive dog.

They are not pets.

They can be trained to be around other animals and people. They have high prey drives and will go after wild animals like squirrels or rabbits if in the yard. They are extremely protective or territorial but it's no different than owning say a Doberman, certain German Shepherds, or some of the bully breeds. So it does take some common sense investigating the breed before buying whether you are ready for that kind of dog. However I have three of these dogs, trained them to be fine around my wife's pet birds and socialized them. I've even had my male DS around stranger's kids, out in public, visiting my grandfather's retirement home, going to bars or street festivals- no issues. I say these are great dogs for the right owners.

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Dutchringgirl
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Re: Advise from trainer and vet

Post by Dutchringgirl »

Mark77 wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:50 pm
Dutchringgirl wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:41 pm This is the information that gets cats killed and people bitten. There is a lot wrong with this breed as pets. they are not a pet breed, they are a working breed. The Ds that you see all happy as pets are mixex or just a brindle dog. If someone had Sadie and wanted her as a pet..... they probably would have either given her back , and that would have made her worse,or put her down. She is a super high drive dog.

They are not pets.

They can be trained to be around other animals and people. They have high prey drives and will go after wild animals like squirrels or rabbits if in the yard. They are extremely protective or territorial but it's no different than owning say a Doberman, certain German Shepherds, or some of the bully breeds. So it does take some common sense investigating the breed before buying whether you are ready for that kind of dog. However I have three of these dogs, trained them to be fine around my wife's pet birds and socialized them. I've even had my male DS around stranger's kids, out in public, visiting my grandfather's retirement home, going to bars or street festivals- no issues. I say these are great dogs for the right owners.
Yes, agree 100% but that is you , me and the other smart people you are talking about. I have seen many who do not have the common sense and really want these dogs. But I do not just say these dogs are good pets
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Re: Advise from trainer and vet

Post by Mark77 »

Dutchringgirl wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:42 pm
Yes, agree 100% but that is you , me and the other smart people you are talking about. I have seen many who do not have the common sense and really want these dogs. But I do not just say these dogs are good pets
So what happens to all the puppies that aren't going to law enforcement or military use? They eventually find their way to the secondary market. They need to go somewhere and I don't want people thinking these dogs are monsters or unpredictable when clearly that isn't the case. They are highly intelligent animals that simply need structure and dedication by owners willing to give them a solid foundation with training. It's not overly difficult to handle them, you just need to be someone whose simply willing to put the time in to find a good trainer before purchasing one of these dogs. I don't want to see this breed go extinct nor scare potential owners away from adopting them if they are interested in them because all of us here own them as pets understand they are exceptional animals. I'm glad I jumped in buying my first DS without hardly any dog experience at all because now I have three that I wouldn't trade for the world.
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Re: Advise from trainer and vet

Post by ksylz »

Joxgirl wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:41 pm Good stuff above.
I’m just a nurse who wanted a dog for protection. I read up on this breed as soon as it was planted in my head. I knew from the very start that this was going to mean a life of dedication to this dog daily, with constant learning and training. There’s a pretty price tag with lessons with a trainer, but I’m in. I had to chose if I was ready to give up cruising the ocean and the random get-a-ways to costal vineyards. I’m in. We can take her camping when we start again and hopefully in the next year we will fly to NY. Meanwhile, this is no lap dog pet. I’m glad this forum is here and the store is nearby :pint:
I live in fairly remote area and I too have been looking for a dog for protection and another addition to the pack. I have been researching ways to keep a DS active and engaged. I have done years of obedience training with my dogs and agility with the old guy who is now 14. I was very intrigued to read about the training to include the aggression as to have them learn the appropriate times for that if need be. I am looking foward to learning more about the DS and all the possibilities for training and fun!!! :DSlove:
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Re: Advise from trainer and vet

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Re: Advise from trainer and vet

Post by JimDurb »

Wow, I wish I read this thread before I decided to rescue "Dutch". I literally thought, "He'll make a good running buddy" and that would be enough for him. Well I guess I have my work cut out for me. That was a great article and very informative. Thankfully I have friends that are working dog handlers that I can train with. I just didn't realize when I got him that was what I really should do with him.
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Tell us about yourself: Hi, my name is Joe. I’m 57, married, live in California with 2 fur babies. I am a proud owner of a 3.5yr old Dutch Shepherd & a 2.5yr old Cairn Terrier. My Dutchie is a lover & quite opposite my Cairn Terrier who is not a cuddle bug & very independent. I love both of them and their differences.

Re: Advise from trainer and vet

Post by Mojoesterling »

Don’t be intimidated by such nonsense.
My experience says, yes, these dogs are high energy & the puppy stage(1.5yrs) will make or break you. But they do eventually mellow out as adults(with proper training).
You just have to have the time, dedication, energy, training, a yard & the large space to get them to this point. If you don’t have these things, then I would not suggest getting a DS nor any dog for that matter.
After you take them on hikes, they are not still going 200 mph(extreme exaggeration). I just look for big open spaces for my girl to train, run off lead, & play fetch with them. We also take them on 2 mile hikes daily & they are good. The Dutch Shepherd is a multi purpose dog. Just because some like to use them for bite or protection work, doesn’t mean that’s what they were bred for......please don’t define them as such. They are not this aggressive dog some make them out to be...a lot of that is taught. The DS is a breed of many talents except lap dog(though they can be that too:)....so it’s up to you what you want to train them for. There’s one thing you can be sure of.....they will shine & respond in whatever it is:)
Lot of people want these dogs for their own insecurities, ego, or as status symbols, then realize how much work & dedication it takes to train such a dog & end up mistreating them or giving them up to shelters.
It’s sad & probably why a lot of trainers want to keep them for themselves & try to deter others from getting them.....for that reason, I can’t blame them.
The Dutch Shepherd is a wonderful & athletic dog and It takes an active, dedicated, patient, & loving person to own one. Just make sure you do your research & hear what others have to say about them before you pull the trigger. Good luck with your decision.
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Re: Advise from trainer and vet

Post by ladyjubilee »

I sort of disagree. I'm not a Dutch Shepherd expert by any stretch, and having Bramble isn't about my ego. I though I was getting some kind of Tennesse Treeing Hound with weird ears. I didn't and don't need a dog for my ego, protection or any other reason than the dog clicks with me...or in Bramble's case my son.

I've had lap dogs that were completely happy to lay at my feet or in my lap all day. Bram loves the attention, but she needs more. I've had high energy dogs, some scales rate Dals as higher energy and my Dals were higher overall energy.....they could run all day and never stop. Our rat terrier mixes bounced all day long.

But Bramble, who is probably a mix is just different. It's not the energy so much as the intensity, what I suspect is what people call "drive". When she locks onto something, and I don't mean attack but focus, she is just totally focused and nearly impossible to distract.

I've worked harder (and spent way for $$) to get her trained to good level, not because she didn't learn but because I am the problem and frankly it is hard to live life AND provide the level of stimulation she needs. (I know my situation is a bit unique on that front.)

I feel that breeders and trainers and vets who offer caution on the breed are doing the dogs a favor. While I'm sure the "breed" might grow if more people had them as pets, the dogs would suffer the same fate as all those Dals and bullies in shelters...abandoned when the human realizes the human can't handle the dog. I speak as one of those folks who really was unprepared for the breed.
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