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Finally.. after a year of searching

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Wes Thomas
Green Dog
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:04 am
Tell us about yourself: I'm a first time DS owner... And now a lifetime owner of the breed. I have Karma.. she's almost 2 now and is incredible. Great protection dog for my family and the most athletic dog I've ever witnessed.

Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by Wes Thomas »

So trying to find another Dutch Shepherd in the South. Challenging..... Trying to find one in Georgia... Relatively tough, but trying to find the right breeding companion for Karma.... seemingly impossible but after months of looking and waiting for the right time I finally found the seemingly right mate for Karma's first litter. I didn't want to breed Karma with just another Malinois or the wrong temperament k9. So after networking I finally located "Kane". A beautiful Dutch Shepherd with a great owner who loves the breed as much as I do. Kane is very intelligent but doesn't have quiet the tenacity that Karma has so I'm hoping to have a great litter with a mix of their drives. They are very equal in size so the pups should deliver fine. So after 3 hours and 1 new muzzle later we finally had the 1st successful breeding of the two. I can't wait to see how Karma is as a mother and have a few new fun pups running around the property.
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Kane
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Wes Thomas
Green Dog
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:04 am
Tell us about yourself: I'm a first time DS owner... And now a lifetime owner of the breed. I have Karma.. she's almost 2 now and is incredible. Great protection dog for my family and the most athletic dog I've ever witnessed.

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by Wes Thomas »

Karma
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Mark77
Training Dog
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:19 am
Tell us about yourself: Own two Dutchies and a Mal.

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by Mark77 »

They get most of their personality, drives, from their mother.

Wes Thomas
Green Dog
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:04 am
Tell us about yourself: I'm a first time DS owner... And now a lifetime owner of the breed. I have Karma.. she's almost 2 now and is incredible. Great protection dog for my family and the most athletic dog I've ever witnessed.

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by Wes Thomas »

That's what I was told by a trusted local k9 handler. He said the drives and sense come from the mother. He told me to just get a good looking male for looks and that the males drive didn't really matter. But my trainer was adamant that I find the right male as well... I would love to hear some other opinions on this subject.

User avatar
borellar15
Training Dog
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:28 pm
Tell us about yourself: Living in Austin, Texas with our dogs Zoey(DS), Henry (DS) and Tripper(labX). In college, I worked as a Handler and Assistant Manager of a training and daycare facility for 3 years where I've handled many working dogs. For the past 2 years I have been training Zoey and we have made some tremendous progress together.
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by borellar15 »

So what are your plans? What do you plan to do with the litter? Are you keeping them and training them or selling them or? Are both dogs Akc registered?
Image Image
Alex - Zoey(DS), Henry (DS), Tripper Lab mix. Austin, Texas

Mark77
Training Dog
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:19 am
Tell us about yourself: Own two Dutchies and a Mal.

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by Mark77 »

I only bred my dog twice. Once to a breeder in the US and once will be in Europe. Both were only with professional Dutch breeders, the dogs were registered on both ends, and had hips/elbows x-rayed, and had traceable bloodlines.

Wes Thomas
Green Dog
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:04 am
Tell us about yourself: I'm a first time DS owner... And now a lifetime owner of the breed. I have Karma.. she's almost 2 now and is incredible. Great protection dog for my family and the most athletic dog I've ever witnessed.

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by Wes Thomas »

I plan on keeping one of the female pups just to keep my dogs bloodline around and to have another companion. I have two other people that are interested in a puppy that have the time and knowledge to handle a working k9. One is my trainer who has a couple of mals but has never had a dutchie and she has fallen in love with my dog Karma. The other is a relative who spends more time with Karma than anyone besides me. He is retired and owns 96 acres of farmland and has all the time in the world to devote to the right companion. I also plan on donating a pup to the local sheriff's department if the pups have the drive and ability like their mother. I do not care at all about making money off the litter. I make enough money with my company but I just want more people to learn and love the breed. Karma is registered and I have a lot of paperwork from her parents and grandparents and so forth to show her pedigree. The male I breed her with however is not akc registered but I do have his parents info, pics and the breeders info. But like I say I'm not breeding her to make money, rather just to spread her bloodline and try and introduce the breed in this area. Karma was purchased as a protection dog but has turned into so much more. Just an incredible physical speciman and a companion.

Mark77
Training Dog
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:19 am
Tell us about yourself: Own two Dutchies and a Mal.

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by Mark77 »

Well they were originally bred to be farm dogs. At the very least test both dogs around livestock. Test them around gunfire with the dog tied off next to you ordered in a down stay, specifically to see if they bark or react in other negative ways. If they react negatively to either gunfire or livestock- then that would eliminate them for further breeding. That was at least among some of the basic tests Cher Car Kennels put my dog through in addition to searching and testing basic bite work as they won't breed nervy dogs or livestock aggressive dogs.

Wes Thomas
Green Dog
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:04 am
Tell us about yourself: I'm a first time DS owner... And now a lifetime owner of the breed. I have Karma.. she's almost 2 now and is incredible. Great protection dog for my family and the most athletic dog I've ever witnessed.

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by Wes Thomas »

That's good advice Mark. Karma completely ignores any livestock including smaller animals such as rabbits and squirrels and cats for that matter. When I first picked her up and she was still younger she didn't like gunshots but now she completely ignores them and has nerves of steel lol but I shoot very often and she's always right with me. But the male I am not certain about gunfire. I know he is other dog friendly which is odd to me for the breed. But I will certainly take these things into consideration and find out more

Mark77
Training Dog
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:19 am
Tell us about yourself: Own two Dutchies and a Mal.

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by Mark77 »

You should try at least register the parents into the database so that way the new owners can register their dogs later. Within a few generations, you might be eligible to register dogs with the UKC. If you decided to compete with the dogs or breed some of the offspring down the road it's a good idea to have some sort of traceable lineage. Here's one of my dog Riddick's pups and you can see the pedigree goes back a long way on both sides.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dutch_s ... s-of-chaos

Ruby
Just Whelped
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 3:49 pm
Tell us about yourself: Old fart with young Dutch female. Live in woods. Mountain bike daily for her well being and mine. We spend months at a time in Mexico so she is bilingual and bicultural. She is typical Dutch/malinois in her obedience. She also herds our chickens, and picks up bottles, cans and paper the city folk leave along our gravel road and drops them delicately in the plastic bag I carry. She guards my bike and backpack when I leave them somewhere.

Re: Searching

Post by Ruby »

Hi there, I’m new to the forum. I’ve raised and bred German Shepherds and Aussies on and off for the last 40 years. We have a bright balanced Dutch that our friends and family would like puppies out of because she is such a stellar dog. We’d like to have just one litter before having her neutered. We searched malinois and Dutch Shepherds for a couple years before finding what we wanted, a smart family protection dog. We visited several breeders and talked to quite a few people and we not impressed with the parent dogs of the professional breeder kennels. In the end we found two home raised non registered parents that were good w kids, discerning about strangers and well trained. Now as we are looking for a stud on the west coast we are having a hard time finding one that isn’t a high drive biter. I’m sure they are out there but the kind of people that have these dogs are not marketing them.
I worked in public health for decades and the study of Epigenetics reinforces the idea that the training and developed responses parents have mastered are often transferred to the pups. We have run into so many psycho malinois and dutchies that are registered with parents paired by hot shot kennels, including one from Michael Ellis’ dog Pi. So bottom line, I’m asking for direction to people on the west coast (preferably not a professional breeder) that have a trained male family dog that is balanced and not crazy driven. Our family and friends are all outdoorsy and exercise regularly so they want athletic dogs but with the shut off switch when in the house.
I’ve heard the rants about the importance of linage breeding, so don’t really want to go there. Pros and cons for both perspectives. Muchísimas gracias for your responses. John

User avatar
borellar15
Training Dog
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:28 pm
Tell us about yourself: Living in Austin, Texas with our dogs Zoey(DS), Henry (DS) and Tripper(labX). In college, I worked as a Handler and Assistant Manager of a training and daycare facility for 3 years where I've handled many working dogs. For the past 2 years I have been training Zoey and we have made some tremendous progress together.
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by borellar15 »

Any pictures of your dutch?
Image Image
Alex - Zoey(DS), Henry (DS), Tripper Lab mix. Austin, Texas

Ruby
Just Whelped
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 3:49 pm
Tell us about yourself: Old fart with young Dutch female. Live in woods. Mountain bike daily for her well being and mine. We spend months at a time in Mexico so she is bilingual and bicultural. She is typical Dutch/malinois in her obedience. She also herds our chickens, and picks up bottles, cans and paper the city folk leave along our gravel road and drops them delicately in the plastic bag I carry. She guards my bike and backpack when I leave them somewhere.

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by Ruby »

Image

This is Ruby tonight

Mark77
Training Dog
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:19 am
Tell us about yourself: Own two Dutchies and a Mal.

Re: Searching

Post by Mark77 »

Ruby wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:41 am
We have a bright balanced Dutch that our friends and family would like puppies out of because she is such a stellar dog. We’d like to have just one litter before having her neutered. We searched malinois and Dutch Shepherds for a couple years before finding what we wanted, a smart family protection dog. We visited several breeders and talked to quite a few people and we not impressed with the parent dogs of the professional breeder kennels. In the end we found two home raised non registered parents that were good w kids, discerning about strangers and well trained. Now as we are looking for a stud on the west coast we are having a hard time finding one that isn’t a high drive biter. I’m sure they are out there but the kind of people that have these dogs are not marketing them.

The reason why people want one that is at least on the pedigree database registry- not necessarily UKC "registered" but has some marked lineage, is to avoid to much line breeding. In addition someone who went the extra step to have the hips and elbows x-rayed.

Brindle
Green Dog
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:03 am
Tell us about yourself: Loving life in Oregon with some AMAZING Dutch Shepherds !

UWP Vrijheid's Force IPO3 (x5), FH2, AD, TDX, OSP, L2C, CGC, CD, APR1, TDU, NW3-C, NW3-E, NW3-V, NW3-I, NW3 Elite, ELT1, NA, NF, L3I, TG-N, TN-N, NAJ, VCD1, CSL1- F, CSL1-H, ELT2, L1E, CA, L2E, ELT3, ELT-CH, L3V, K9 Blood Donor
Vrijheid's Qahlua (Vodka) IPO3, L2I, L3C, NW3V, NW3C, NW3E. NW3I, L3E, NJP, NAP, OFP, NW3 Elite, L2V, TD
Van Kracht's Absolut Fury ( youngster in training )
Location: Oregon

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by Brindle »

Hi Ruby,
I got your email about looking for a stud dog.
I do not know of any low drive breed worthy males on the west coast.
The Dutch Shepherd is a working breed and known for high drive ( which makes them fun ), but just because they are high drive it doesn't mean they are kennel dogs. Mine all live in the house with me and are awesome.

At the very least before searching for a stud, have your girl health tested.
She should have OFA hips and elbows, CERF for eyes, and a genetic test for DM.
Pedigree is not required for any of those tests.
Be sure to require the same tests have been done on the stud dog.

Good luck on your search. Maybe the breeder you got your girl from can help you once her health testing is complete.
UWP Vrijheid's Force IPO3,FH2,AD,TDX,OSP,L2C,CGC,CD,APR1,TDU,NA,NF,L3I,TG-N,TN-N,NAJ,VCD1,CSL1-F,CSL1-H,L1E,CA,L2E, ELT-CH,L3V

Vrijheid's Qahlua IPO3,L2I,L3CI,L3E,NJP,NAP,OFP,NW3 Elite,L2V,TD

Van Kracht's Absolut Fury ( in training )

Ruby
Just Whelped
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 3:49 pm
Tell us about yourself: Old fart with young Dutch female. Live in woods. Mountain bike daily for her well being and mine. We spend months at a time in Mexico so she is bilingual and bicultural. She is typical Dutch/malinois in her obedience. She also herds our chickens, and picks up bottles, cans and paper the city folk leave along our gravel road and drops them delicately in the plastic bag I carry. She guards my bike and backpack when I leave them somewhere.

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by Ruby »

Thank you Brindle, any suggestions on best place to get the testing done?
Just to clarify, I’m not looking for a low drive stud. Just on the scale of drive one that isn’t a full time working dog. What people see in our dog is how biddable she is, laid back but ever watchful of the family, quick learner and discerning of people’s character and intentions. She runs loose on our property and stays home. She hangs out with us but needs her workout everY day to maintain the energy balance (not pacing and amped). We ride mountain bikes w her five miles or so everyday or live with too much energy. Kind of like me in that sense. We are country folk as are most of our friends wanting a pup from Ruby.
Incidentally she makes life easier for us by herding our free range chickens into the coop when we have to leave. And her vigilance have kept the varmints from eating them while they Are ranging. Meanwhile she hangs with them peacefully unless they get into the flower garden where they are not welcome. May not sound like a big deal but we have raised and trained aussies and German shepherds for decades without the acute discernment she shows.

Brindle
Green Dog
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:03 am
Tell us about yourself: Loving life in Oregon with some AMAZING Dutch Shepherds !

UWP Vrijheid's Force IPO3 (x5), FH2, AD, TDX, OSP, L2C, CGC, CD, APR1, TDU, NW3-C, NW3-E, NW3-V, NW3-I, NW3 Elite, ELT1, NA, NF, L3I, TG-N, TN-N, NAJ, VCD1, CSL1- F, CSL1-H, ELT2, L1E, CA, L2E, ELT3, ELT-CH, L3V, K9 Blood Donor
Vrijheid's Qahlua (Vodka) IPO3, L2I, L3C, NW3V, NW3C, NW3E. NW3I, L3E, NJP, NAP, OFP, NW3 Elite, L2V, TD
Van Kracht's Absolut Fury ( youngster in training )
Location: Oregon

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by Brindle »

Hi Ruby ,
Here's a few links for you about health tests.

You can order DM tests here :
https://www.ofa.org/diseases/dna-tested-diseases/dm

Upcoming health clinics can be found here :
https://www.ofa.org/health-clinics

Many veterinary clinics can take and submit radiographs for OFA hip and elbow certifications. Positioning is very important for correct grading. Call around to veterinarians in your area to see who does them.
The CERF screening needs to be done by a board certified ophthalmologist. There is frequently one at larger dog shows, or call your veterinary hospital and ask where the nearest board certified veterinary ophthalmologist is.
Or do a search on the ACVO website :
https://www.acvo.org

I take an extra step with my dogs and also do PennHIP screening in addition to all the above. It's a more involved hip screening,
https://antechimagingservices.com/antechweb/pennhip
UWP Vrijheid's Force IPO3,FH2,AD,TDX,OSP,L2C,CGC,CD,APR1,TDU,NA,NF,L3I,TG-N,TN-N,NAJ,VCD1,CSL1-F,CSL1-H,L1E,CA,L2E, ELT-CH,L3V

Vrijheid's Qahlua IPO3,L2I,L3CI,L3E,NJP,NAP,OFP,NW3 Elite,L2V,TD

Van Kracht's Absolut Fury ( in training )

Ruby
Just Whelped
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 3:49 pm
Tell us about yourself: Old fart with young Dutch female. Live in woods. Mountain bike daily for her well being and mine. We spend months at a time in Mexico so she is bilingual and bicultural. She is typical Dutch/malinois in her obedience. She also herds our chickens, and picks up bottles, cans and paper the city folk leave along our gravel road and drops them delicately in the plastic bag I carry. She guards my bike and backpack when I leave them somewhere.

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by Ruby »

To do the hip and elbow radiographs do they put the dogs to sleep?

Brindle
Green Dog
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:03 am
Tell us about yourself: Loving life in Oregon with some AMAZING Dutch Shepherds !

UWP Vrijheid's Force IPO3 (x5), FH2, AD, TDX, OSP, L2C, CGC, CD, APR1, TDU, NW3-C, NW3-E, NW3-V, NW3-I, NW3 Elite, ELT1, NA, NF, L3I, TG-N, TN-N, NAJ, VCD1, CSL1- F, CSL1-H, ELT2, L1E, CA, L2E, ELT3, ELT-CH, L3V, K9 Blood Donor
Vrijheid's Qahlua (Vodka) IPO3, L2I, L3C, NW3V, NW3C, NW3E. NW3I, L3E, NJP, NAP, OFP, NW3 Elite, L2V, TD
Van Kracht's Absolut Fury ( youngster in training )
Location: Oregon

Re: Finally.. after a year of searching

Post by Brindle »

Ruby wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:10 pm
To do the hip and elbow radiographs do they put the dogs to sleep?
For PennHIP - yes ( full anesthesia )
For OFA - it is recommended but not required ( can be awake, sedated , or under anesthesia )
UWP Vrijheid's Force IPO3,FH2,AD,TDX,OSP,L2C,CGC,CD,APR1,TDU,NA,NF,L3I,TG-N,TN-N,NAJ,VCD1,CSL1-F,CSL1-H,L1E,CA,L2E, ELT-CH,L3V

Vrijheid's Qahlua IPO3,L2I,L3CI,L3E,NJP,NAP,OFP,NW3 Elite,L2V,TD

Van Kracht's Absolut Fury ( in training )

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