Dutch Shepherd Forum

Was just watching the news and there was a report on grain free dog foods causing “dilated cardiomyopathy” in certain dogs a condition where a taurine deficiency leads to an oversized heart. Has anyone else heard this? What do you think. Says foods containing peas, potatoes l, lentils and other legumes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnew ... ncna891011

Here is another good article about it: https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/blog/ ... medium=soc

It definitely makes me wish I could afford and had the freezer space to feed raw! I am just now learning about the raw food diet.

Yea I’ve been using the freeze dried raw topper by sojos for training with Zoey as a high value reward and she loves it. But it is expensive and feeding raw every meal would definitely be even more so. I like the treats though. They have a “wild” line as well that has wild boar, goat, venison, and free range beef.

borellar15 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:35 am Yea I’ve been using the freeze dried raw topper by sojos for training with Zoey as a high value reward and she loves it. But it is expensive and feeding raw every meal would definitely be even more so. I like the treats though. They have a “wild” line as well that has wild boar, goat, venison, and free range beef.

I'm with you, with 2 large dogs there's just no way I could afford it, let alone the shopping/prep/storage/dealing with comments from my dad... but I've been wanting to increase the value of S2's meals as well, I always buy food in the 4-5 star range on DFA, and luckily mine have iron stomachs so I can switch brands based on sales (so hopefully they get a good balance, should one brand be lacking something another isn't)...

and recently I re-started giving them some supplements I slacked on (coconut oil, Seameal, eggs), and a couple days ago at Petco they had Instinct Raw Mixers (basically toppers) on sale so I grabbed a couple bags, the first one I opened certainly smelled like real meat

montecarlogirl87 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:44 am luckily mine have iron stomachs so I can switch brands based on sales (so hopefully they get a good balance, should one brand be lacking

See that’s our problem is Zoey is very sensitive to food switching. If we start giving her something different we definitely can tell when it comes to breakin out the poop bags... but I keep that FirmUp handy which really does work.

Even after reading that article I feel like I do need to switch Zoey. Unfortunately she likes it but here’s the list of ingredients showing peas, chickpeas and lentils pretty close to the top after the proteins. Those are the ones they said to be on the lookout for as main ingredients.

Same with my grain free Earthborn My oldest has been grain free all his life because of allergies and now has a murmur (stable and likely due to older age, 9 years), but it still makes you wonder.

I didn't have time to read the article before I left for work this morning, and I spent the commute thinking, how can being 'grain free' be bad? it's not like raw feeders are giving their dogs oatmeal and corn and wheat
now that I've read the article...
I feel like it's a bit of an overreaction (for now)
they're still looking into the causes and correlations and it's not that "grain-free food is bad," but more like the fillers that they're using in place of grains (peas, legumes, potatoes) are also not necessarily healthy for a dog in high quantity

I feel better about my own dogs' diet now that I read it, because as I said, I don't stick to the same brand, so my two aren't getting the same ingredients (and percentages of ingredients) over and over and over, I don't even necessarily purchase only grain-free brands, although if the price is right, I still feel like they're a better choice than cheap soy, corn, wheat, etc fillers
(but I also know I'm lucky that S2 are garbage disposals)

I dont listen to the main stream news when it comes to doing the "natural " thing for me and my dogs. You would need a ton of data ovey many many years to really say there is a correlation between grain free ( or the ingredients) and heart conditions. How many of these dogs would have developed that anyway? You have no idea. I fed Orajen / acana for many years and did raw and THalie lived to a healthy 16. Saidie at almost 9 is great too. There is way to know unless the study went on for generations.

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:40 pm How many of these dogs would have developed that anyway? You have no idea.

True. That was one of my thoughts as well. Idk seems like it has more to do with the inability to produce taurine from the ingredients in the food than the food itself being grain free. Thus, if there is taurine in the food or the proper amino acids for the dogs to make taurine then they should be fine(which I’m not exactly sure what they are they may have been in the article though). But yea I kinda agree with you that there’s not enough evidence yet to say that’s what’s causing it in these dogs but will most likely switch to Fromm which has taurine in it and does not list peas, chickpeas and what not as ingredients or not that high up as the Nulo if it does.

not sure about dogs but humans make taurine, if we dont make enough or get enough, then we have problems. The same may be true for dogs. Taurine is an amino acid, the lack of causes heart problems, I really doubt food causes this. cystinuria causes taurine deficency in dogs, how many were tested for that before they looked at the food??

I went to my grocer and look for sales of good meats for them, then i make a mush of some veggies and eggs and pre make patties when I was making raw for Thalie.


Also, its not the bagged food, its the people making raw mixes that do not know what they are doing and the ratio are not correct. So they lump in EVERYONE who is feeding the new stuff on the market in one group and blame the wrong stuff.

good quality grain free is not the problem.

Taurine is from meat fish and dairy. veggies and such do not have enough taurine to matter.

Lisa- thanks for your observation and input! that's what I've always hated about any kind of study or statistic; you never know what is outside the realm of the report.

most ( if not all) of any study that points you AWAY from the natural way of anything, herb supplements, healthy eating, are usually bull S*****.

I found no mention of a study. Just the FDA saying there "might" be a correlation to the problem. This doesn't mean it's not there, but this is certainly something we shouldn't overreact to.

My suggestion is to discuss this with your vet on the next check up. This brings the potential problem into focus, so it can be watched over time.

I dont care what the FDA has to say, they always direct us back to either chemicals to put in our body or crap to make money for the big companies.

only a blood test will see if there is an underlying condition or not, it wont be the food if you are a smart dog owner who does the proper research ( like us).

again, there is no way to tell unless there is a good study and it has to be over decades to see .

My two cents is “what would these dogs be eating in the wild”? It’s not kibble. It’s mostly meat and some fruits some veggies. It’s not cheese or Snauages. But the same is said for humans. I like the idea of mixing it up for Rogue. I think raw is best. I can’t afford it for every meal just like I dont buy meat for everyone of my meals. (I know our dogs have different needs than us). I try to make the best choices,and stay in budget.

Joxgirl wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:33 am My two cents is “what would these dogs be eating in the wild”? It’s not kibble.

kibble referrers to the purina crap and food like that. They are referring to grain free.

It’s mostly meat and some fruits some veggies. It’s not cheese or Snauages. But the same is said for humans. I like the idea of mixing it up for Rogue. I think raw is best. I can’t afford it for every meal just like I dont buy meat for everyone of my meals. (I know our dogs have different needs than us). I try to make the best choices,and stay in budget.
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they do need meat for every meal, there is a ratio they should have for every meal. The bags of high quality grain free are fine.

Just to clarify, I don’t buy the most expensive cuts of meat for Rogues every meal. She gets meat. Sometimes it’s bison, sometimes fish sometimes poultry sometimes is elk But I can’t afford elk everyday.

no it does not have to be that type of mean every day. I did chicken most of the time and looked for sales

*** Bringing back an old post, but there's new information ***

www.petproductnews.com wrote:A group of researchers found no definitive relationship between grain-free and legume-rich diets and dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) in dogs, according to the authors of a new article published in the Journal of Animal Science.

Link to the actual Journal Article