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Early morning track with Millie & Grendel

Discussion of Tracking in the various sports.
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Tennessee3
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Tell us about yourself: Nicholas or Nick, doesn't matter to me.

Early morning track with Millie & Grendel

Post by Tennessee3 » Sat May 12, 2018 2:38 pm

Few shots and a short video of the tracking session we had this morning. I haven’t been able to lay a track for Millie in months and I was very impressed with how well she did.

Grendel did terrible. LOL. Looks like this area will have to be a real focus with him going foward. Which will be different as Millie got the concept almost immediately. But hey, that’s how we grow as handlers right?!

You’ll hear me get excited and start laughing at the end, as that was the first time she’s marked the article without me giving her the command. (I do actually give the command but she was going down before I said anything). Very proud of her, she’d be capable of a lot tracking wise in better hands than mine.


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Nicholas

Millie WLGSD in training for Schutzhund 5/27/17 & Grendel KNPV lines Malinois same + PP work 2/15/18

...... Mals are tan dutchies, right?

https://www.instagram.com/nick_millie_and_grendel/

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centrop67
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Tell us about yourself: Accidental DS rescuer. Human companion to Radar and Leela. Owner of the site, looking to make this the top site for information and discussion on Dutch Shepherds.
Location: Cutler Bay, FL, USA

Re: Early morning track with Millie & Grendel

Post by centrop67 » Mon May 14, 2018 10:58 am

Nice
Michael
The pack -> Radar (DS), Leela (Mal?), and Karen (Human) - Cutler Bay, FL USA
RIP: Tequila and Snickers
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Steve Gossmeyer
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Tell us about yourself: Schutzhund helper and trainer I own and work two Dutchies
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Re: Early morning track with Millie & Grendel

Post by Steve Gossmeyer » Mon May 14, 2018 12:31 pm

I'm so happy to see others tracking on here!

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Tennessee3
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Tell us about yourself: Nicholas or Nick, doesn't matter to me.

Re: Early morning track with Millie & Grendel

Post by Tennessee3 » Tue May 15, 2018 10:59 pm

Steve Gossmeyer wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 12:31 pm
I'm so happy to see others tracking on here!
I'll admit to a bit of bias as it's my older dog's strongest area, but it's probably my favorite thing to do with a dog.

There's real beauty in watching an animal use it's natural skills to do something you never could, no stress, no pressure, just sit back and watch them do what they love re-purposed for your needs. Like a little tableau of domestication, only difference between now and 500 years ago is the tools, the relationships still the same.

*Stops pontificating about the nature of man and beast and steps of soap box*

Do you have any recommendations for keeping the dog slow when you skip treats in the steps?

Before everything got crazy for me I had started skipping treats in steps and always tried to mix things up to prevent pattern recognition, but she's got a good enough nose that she speeds up in the "empty" footsteps and her head starts coming up just a smidge. She'll still checking each step but it's noticeable the longer I go without putting in a reward, the faster she goes. E.g. She goes faster through 10 empty footsteps than 5 and faster through 5 than 2 etc.

I noticed the same thing the morning I laid this track. I'm not sure she's moving fast enough to lose points, but I also haven't ever run a full track with only a reward at the end either.

ETA: you can see this beginning around the 8 second mark
Nicholas

Millie WLGSD in training for Schutzhund 5/27/17 & Grendel KNPV lines Malinois same + PP work 2/15/18

...... Mals are tan dutchies, right?

https://www.instagram.com/nick_millie_and_grendel/

Steve Gossmeyer
Training Dog
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:43 pm
Tell us about yourself: Schutzhund helper and trainer I own and work two Dutchies
Location: Long Island

Re: Early morning track with Millie & Grendel

Post by Steve Gossmeyer » Wed May 16, 2018 1:44 am

Tennessee3 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:59 pm
Steve Gossmeyer wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 12:31 pm
I'm so happy to see others tracking on here!
I'll admit to a bit of bias as it's my older dog's strongest area, but it's probably my favorite thing to do with a dog.

There's real beauty in watching an animal use it's natural skills to do something you never could, no stress, no pressure, just sit back and watch them do what they love re-purposed for your needs. Like a little tableau of domestication, only difference between now and 500 years ago is the tools, the relationships still the same.

*Stops pontificating about the nature of man and beast and steps of soap box*

Do you have any recommendations for keeping the dog slow when you skip treats in the steps?

Before everything got crazy for me I had started skipping treats in steps and always tried to mix things up to prevent pattern recognition, but she's got a good enough nose that she speeds up in the "empty" footsteps and her head starts coming up just a smidge. She'll still checking each step but it's noticeable the longer I go without putting in a reward, the faster she goes. E.g. She goes faster through 10 empty footsteps than 5 and faster through 5 than 2 etc.

I noticed the same thing the morning I laid this track. I'm not sure she's moving fast enough to lose points, but I also haven't ever run a full track with only a reward at the end either.

ETA: you can see this beginning around the 8 second mark
How many tracks have you done with food in every step before taking food away?

Steve Gossmeyer
Training Dog
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:43 pm
Tell us about yourself: Schutzhund helper and trainer I own and work two Dutchies
Location: Long Island

Re: Early morning track with Millie & Grendel

Post by Steve Gossmeyer » Wed May 16, 2018 1:47 am

Also is there any discipline on the track? I typically do several hundred tracks with food in every footstep and then I apply pressure when the dog makes a mistake then I do articles off the track and once they are added to the track there is pressure put on them... you can use more articles to slow the dog down when food is taken away.... but I'm usually at that point aroun 5-600 tracks... tracking is obedience once the dog knows its job it's not allowed to f**k off

Steve Gossmeyer
Training Dog
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:43 pm
Tell us about yourself: Schutzhund helper and trainer I own and work two Dutchies
Location: Long Island

Re: Early morning track with Millie & Grendel

Post by Steve Gossmeyer » Wed May 16, 2018 1:50 am

Yoda has had close to 1000 tracks and has seen it all... so we are pretty much at the point of smooth sailing... hes not going to miss an article... and he knows to check every footstep.. once u took food away I added more articles and then slowly deminished the articles so he is tracking with low food tracks and discipline but once again we have had close to 1000 tracks

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TimL_168
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Tell us about yourself: I am: a father of 2 boys, a carpenter, hunter, runner. We have extensive experience with sled dogs, shepherd mixes, a wolf hybrid, and our current dog a 95# long haired Shiloh Shepherd. We added Endeavor in April 2016. She was not working out in HRD. I train for game recovery and general utility.
Location: central MD

Re: Early morning track with Millie & Grendel

Post by TimL_168 » Wed May 16, 2018 2:49 am

Just curious: do either of you guys keep any hard rules regarding verbal cues/ corrections while tracking? I haven't had any real chance to WORK with others doing what we do, but I've read & heard it both ways.
Tim L.
Aurora(Shiloh) Endeavor

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Tennessee3
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Tell us about yourself: Nicholas or Nick, doesn't matter to me.

Re: Early morning track with Millie & Grendel

Post by Tennessee3 » Wed May 16, 2018 11:24 pm

Steve Gossmeyer wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 1:47 am
Also is there any discipline on the track? I typically do several hundred tracks with food in every footstep and then I apply pressure when the dog makes a mistake then I do articles off the track and once they are added to the track there is pressure put on them... you can use more articles to slow the dog down when food is taken away.... but I'm usually at that point aroun 5-600 tracks... tracking is obedience once the dog knows its job it's not allowed to f**k off
We started when she was 12/13 weeks, so quite a few at this point but I couldn't tell you a number.

She's still young and we've got plenty of work left to do. When I run tracks, I usually stay tight on her and "steer" with the leads giving *very* soft corrections if she's messing up. Think "slllloooowww". Basically all positive, let her work but with "bumper rails" if you will. So she knows what I want from her.

What I'm picking up from you is that I need to just keep working, mixing things up, keep her disciplined on the track, and integrate articles to keep her honest as needed.

Other than the article strategy, that's what I kind of figured I needed to do.

The reason I asked is I try to approach training with an overall plan and an understanding of where I'm going and potential challenges and solutions to keep an eye on as I progress
Nicholas

Millie WLGSD in training for Schutzhund 5/27/17 & Grendel KNPV lines Malinois same + PP work 2/15/18

...... Mals are tan dutchies, right?

https://www.instagram.com/nick_millie_and_grendel/

User avatar
Tennessee3
Green Dog
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:29 pm
Tell us about yourself: Nicholas or Nick, doesn't matter to me.

Re: Early morning track with Millie & Grendel

Post by Tennessee3 » Wed May 16, 2018 11:47 pm

TimL_168 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 2:49 am
Just curious: do either of you guys keep any hard rules regarding verbal cues/ corrections while tracking? I haven't had any real chance to WORK with others doing what we do, but I've read & heard it both ways.
Steve will agree with this:
IPO is very strict that the search command may only be given at the scent pad and after the 1st article, so I stay as quiet as possible and let her work. I want her in the zone and not distracted at all, tracking is 100% on the dog so I train her to do her thing without my input.

I'm only speaking for myself on this one:

I have a rule of no "real" corrections on the track, I might throw out the a "slow" to calm her down and we're still learning so I'll stay tight so I can "drive" with the leashes if need be so she knows what I want.

But my philosophy on this is at it's core tracking training is just a dog sniffing the ground and getting treats, why do I need to bring compulsion or corrections into the mix? It's what dogs DO LOL. With patience and lots of rewards, they'll get the picture.

It's one of the few areas where I take a hard stance against negative reinforcement, this is supposed to be fun and mentally stimulating. It's a test of a dogs inherent abilities, NOT a test of it's endurance/bidability.
Nicholas

Millie WLGSD in training for Schutzhund 5/27/17 & Grendel KNPV lines Malinois same + PP work 2/15/18

...... Mals are tan dutchies, right?

https://www.instagram.com/nick_millie_and_grendel/

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