Protection Dogs.

Discussion of Protection in the various sports
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Mark77
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Protection Dogs.

Post by Mark77 »

A protection dog is never taught an out because there isn't one as it's generally choked off. A dog that shuts down under pressure is not a protection dog. Sport protection dogs as well as police dogs for certification are taught the out command but again- for training purposes are generally choked off as well. From my trainers perspective at the time, it was believed that training the out diminishes the drive because the dog is anticipating the correction. He was correct, as I saw it myself trying to train the out using an electronic collar for a video for a perspective breeder.

Edited to make more sense post beer Saturday.

M
Last edited by Mark77 on Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:11 am, edited 3 times in total.
Tim91118
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Re: Protection Dogs.

Post by Tim91118 »

http://www.tarheelcanine.com/2014/05/verbal-out-out-return-and-tactical-release-part-1/



Totally believe everything except the “out”
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ladyjubilee
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Re: Protection Dogs.

Post by ladyjubilee »

I'm totally ignorant on the topic but have a question. Is this philosophic different why police dogs are sometimes shot by their handlers/others when the dog will not release? I always that those were training fails, but maybe thats just how the dogs were trained?
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Mark77
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Re: Protection Dogs.

Post by Mark77 »

Tim91118 wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:45 pm http://www.tarheelcanine.com/2014/05/verbal-out-out-return-and-tactical-release-part-1/



Totally believe everything except the “out”
Police dogs have to have a verbal out- during certification.
Last edited by Mark77 on Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
TimL_168
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Re: Protection Dogs.

Post by TimL_168 »

What brings this up?
Tim L.
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Mark77
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Re: Protection Dogs.

Post by Mark77 »

I brought it up because I was remembering training my dog when he was younger. With him not being a police dog, he was a little "off" as to the goals of what we were doing. He'd hang on until that sleeve was released then drag it off to the side to eat it. Eventually we got him squared away requiring the choke release but just thought it was funny.
ladyjubilee
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Re: Protection Dogs.

Post by ladyjubilee »

So, I'm still confused. I understand a dog caught up in the bite/reward, but I dont understand why it would be good that a dog be able to control the reward instead of the handler. It seems kind of like owning the couch. Or even food, that is my food and I allow the dog to have it.

Also, is choking out why DS are prone to come up the leash?

Whew, service work is way easier!
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Mark77
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Re: Protection Dogs.

Post by Mark77 »

The reward is the bite work. Them retaining the sleeve afterward or hanging onto a decoy until being physically choked off is because they don't want to let go. There is no out in a real world situation if a threat is still breathing. I was told that training the out diminishes the drive because they end up anticipating the correction. You don't do it unless training for say a certification on a limited basis or perhaps a sport dog title of some type. Otherwise you just choke them off.

Watch this, start at 3:45 until the end. Copy and paste.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_-kKT-Kkvk
Tim91118
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Re: Protection Dogs.

Post by Tim91118 »

Mark77 wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:10 pm The reward is the bite work. Them retaining the sleeve afterward or hanging onto a decoy until being physically choked off is because they don't want to let go. There is no out in a real world situation if a threat is still breathing. I was told that training the out diminishes the drive because they end up anticipating the correction. You don't do it unless training for say a certification on a limited basis or perhaps a sport dog title of some type. Otherwise you just choke them off.

Watch this, start at 3:45 until the end. Copy and paste.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_-kKT-Kkv



This is a law enforcement dog and completely different than a family protection dog
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Re: Protection Dogs.

Post by ladyjubilee »

SEL wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:34 pm You couldn't take a dog like Laszlo and ever try and put him into defense drive, he'd be a mess. Maybe that's what somebody tried to do with him previously. Who knows.
Could Idna make those kinds of decisions?
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Re: Protection Dogs.

Post by Mark77 »

Tim91118 wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:41 am
This is a law enforcement dog and completely different than a family protection dog
The only difference is the individual level of the continually evolving continuum of pressure to where a particular dog is at. The more advanced the dog, the more pressure it can handle. This video does a good job explaining why you choke dogs off when protection training.

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