Jeckle and Hyde Puppy

[GSDNanny]

Scenario that I could use some advice/input into.

Have a 7 mo old Dutch/GSD cross female pup that I am working with (actually have 3 of them right now, long story). I have been socializing her, basic house and vehicle manners, behavior marking, search, tracking, etc. We have just started obedience. No bitework.

Took her to the lake on Saturday with the family for a BBQ for hubby's BD. Wanted to socialize her more with children because this girl may actually stay with me if all works out. My old GSD girl died in January and have been researching a replacement for her, one that would be social enough to do S&R. The pup (Gris), myself and the 4 yr old grandson took a long exploring walk around the lake (off lead) and then we went over to the beach and hung out with the older grandkids making sand castles. Gris loves the sand and water. The kids threw toys/balls for her and she played nicely. She was fine, was good with everyone at the campsite. No other dogs were there. She was on lead most of the time but dragging it along. She interacted with everyone for 4+ hours nicely.

We were all sitting around the campfire having just eaten and she was on lead tied to my chair and laying quietly close and behind my chair. The 4 yr old picked up a frisbee and came to toss it for her and she lit up, teeth bared, hackles up and pouncing. I grabbed her up by the collar and put the fear of God in her and she settled. My sister approached from the back and the pup did the same thing. Well, needless to say she spent the rest of the afternoon in the truck.

Do you think it was because I was sitting and she was tethered closely or what? I have made it obvious here of late that I do not want a dog with temperament issues anymore, I am too old and much wiser now. Suggestions anyone?

[Marjolein]

maybe you missed some warning signs before this happened, could it be she was totally worn out of this day full of new impressions and had been giving subtle signs that she wanted to be left alone, when nobody saw those signs she might have to make herself more clear...doggy-wise?

Just a thought, but I have seen that happen before with young dogs/kids. Kids go on and on, and do not understand the dogs signs "no, I want to rest now and need my space". We miss those signs too pretty often...not just kids
She still has no right to react like that and it should be adressed, but maybe it makes it clearer where it came from? Hard to tell tho, from behind a computer

[Raven]

How long have you had her -- what do you know of her background?

As a one-time occurance, all is speculation---and could be a combination of things...including a stimulating day ending with a feeling of knowing she's "tied" but is settled in comfortably then there's sudden action. Don't dismiss as temperment until there's more proofing. JMO.

[Dutchringgirl]

I am agreeing with the tired and wanted to be left alone. She could be trying to establish her order in getting so mad. My thoughts.

[Drizlaru]

Deleted - Duplicate Post.

[Drizlaru]

We were all sitting around the campfire having just eaten and she was on lead tied to my chair and laying quietly close and behind my chair.

Was she on alert before she had a show of force? No way of telling if she was behind you.

Was it dark? Perhaps she was startled. Or, like others have said, she just wanted to be left alone.

At this point (imo), just keep her in sight when she is relaxing, then you can pick up on her behavior/ body language before an incident. Keep in mind too, fire can be a stressor for some dogs. There are some that it doesn't bother, and they rather enjoy it. On the other hand there are many that consider fire a danger and want to stay away.

As you know, people and other dogs can be stressors, but environment can be too.

[Schlussdibusti]

I have made it obvious here of late that I do not want a dog with temperament issues anymore, I am too old and much wiser now.

I think this is the answer. Although the pup had "good" reasons to act that way, it reads like you don't want a dog that acts that way when stressed out, tired, etc. But here is the dilemma, a working dog is breed to be re-active and not to be 'yeah - whatever' like a St. Bernard or Old English Shep Dog.

[GSDNanny]

Actually, upon re-evaluating what happened, I have come to a conclusion. When the grandson came up holding high and swinging the frisbee as to throw it, showing it to Gris, she probably took that as a threat. It was daylight still and granted she had had a full active day. She was resting but not asleep so was not startled. If she really wanted to bite either he or my sister, she could have. She did stand her ground but did not advance. And this pup is all about me, her handler. She was giving a warning. I feel that this will be remedied once she gets some solid obedience. Thank you all for your input.

[GSDNanny]

I have made it obvious here of late that I do not want a dog with temperament issues anymore, I am too old and much wiser now.

I think this is the answer. Although the pup had "good" reasons to act that way, it reads like you don't want a dog that acts that way when stressed out, tired, etc. But here is the dilemma, a working dog is breed to be re-active and not to be 'yeah - whatever' like a St. Bernard or Old English Shep Dog.

You are right about me. But I have had serious working breed dogs in the past who were appropriately reactive, manageable through obedience so I feel herein lies the answer for Gris. But sometimes even a nervy/civil dog is unpredictable. That is something that I do not want. We will work through this but til then, the Aussie will go on family outings.

[GSDNanny]

Pulled out a book I had started recently and low and behold the next part talked precisely about this. The title of the book is "On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals." by Turid Rugaas. Excellent short book. Some things I knew through association or experience over the years but had never really given thought to.

It states to always give a dog an emergency exit if he needs it when people, other dogs or objects come too close. A tight lead confines the dog and instills defense. That is what Gris did. Off lead, she was fine.

We need to be careful with signals we give a dog when he looks at a person, child or another dog; giving positive signals so that the association with that person, child, dog is positive. Holding a tight leash does not give the dog an exit nor does it give the dog a chance to use his own calming signals. Needless to say, I gave Gris major discomfort when I jerked her up upon her aggressive display. So now I assume that I will have to reapply her association with the grandson back to a positive situation as when we were on our hike.

Interesting read.

[GSDNanny]

On further discussion on this book, it gives nice photos and case histories on how dogs communicate through body language and use innate calming signals such as licking mouth, yawning, play bow, curving on walk, sniffing, head turning, freezing, etc. We as humans can also use them to calm a dog just as they use them amongst themselves. I bought this book due to my older DS, Zip, but it is applicable to all.

[felixone123]

I love that book too!! I actually bought it for Dakota, who is reactive to most dogs. I am so much more in tune with her signals now and can read her like a book. I can now see the signals that both dogs do with each other and it tells alot. Two people told me that there is a video also and highly recommended it. I have not bought it yet.

I am glad that Gris can now be better understood.

[GSDNanny]

Barbara, it really is a good, simple little book so applicable. I've always concentrated on the 'reactive' side of dog signals and myself reacting to them that I have totally neglected the 'calming' signals that dogs use naturally, those signals that I need to reinforce in my own dogs. I havent seen the video. If you buy it, let me know what you think.

This just goes to show that we can always learn something new, training is ongoing. Thank you, now Griselda's mom has some rectifying to do.

[Dutchringgirl]

Thanks for sharing the book! There is always room to brush up on basics, I think ill pick up the book. I just read "dont shoot the dog" Good book also.

[alexis]

The book sounds a lot like "Behavior Adjustment Training" (which I'm reading now). It's by Grisha Stewart and has been really helpful. She explains exactly how to train your dog to stop at the socially acceptable self-soothing method (turning, sniffing) rather than going to barking/lunging/biting when the dog is uncomfortable in a situation. It's basically just letting the dog practice at a very low level of fear/discomfort so that she can make good choices, and then upping the challenge as she gets acclimated to the situation. It's not rocket science, but she gives step by step training instructions for a lot of the common dog problems (dogs afraid of other dogs, dogs frustrated they can't reach other dogs, scared of people, etc), which I've found helpful.

[Drizlaru]

One of the best books on the market imo:

The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs - Patricia B. McConnell