Dog Park Problems

[pdlucky]

Sorry in advance, this is long but I wanted to try to give all the details.

Here is our routine I am up early to go swimming every morning so when I am eating breakfast I usually feed Remington so he is eating pretty early I would say usually around 4:45 am. When I come home from work around 4:30 pm he is eager to see me and he knows he will be going out to play or do something active. If it is raining we will go for a good long walk and he is doing really well walking on a leash now, or we will go to the dog park and I will let him chase the ball and expend his energy. At first he was fine except when he would be coming back with the ball and if another dog would keep harrassing him he would snap at them to tell them to leave him alone. Some dogs get it and go away and some don't listen and if they keep coming around he gets more and more aggitated. Now if another dog beats him to the ball which only happens when they start halfway to where the ball lands and at that it usually is very close. But if they get it he is fine and just comes back to me and waits for me to get the ball back.

As this has been the case for a couple weeks now he has started getting more aggressive when I make him calm down and relax for a bit. A lot of the time he will rest for a minute and then try to get the chuckit or try to get the ball and chew on it. If another dog comes by he will snap at them and usually they leave him alone.

Yesterday things got worse. We got to the dog park and he was fine doing his usual thing getting the ball and brining it back and if another dog got it he was fine. After a while I wanted him to calm down some so I told him we were all done and I sat down and but my foot on the ball. Remington laid down and tried to get the ball but I told him to leave it and he just laid by my feet. Right around this time a brindle Boxer showed up and quickly came over to meet us. Remington instanly snapped at him and did not try to meet him. A moment later this older female GSD came by and he snapped at her right away. He has played with her in the past. I always tell him no when he does this. He seemed to be calming a little so I let go of his collar and he stepped away from me and went to the bathroom. Then a golden retriever came over and smelled his spot and Remington licked the dogs privates and then the golden retriever(male) went away Remington then saw the boxer and went over behind it and sniffed his but and seemed to be alright. Then he came back over to me and a moment later the boxer came back and Remington got aggressive. He was close to me so as I yelled no to him I grabbed him buy the scruff of the neck and held him down to the ground. When the boxer went away I clipped Remigtons leash on and we walked over and put his ball way out of reach of any dog and went back to where I was sitting. Of course the boxer came back up to us and Remington tried to lunge at him but I held him next to me and told him no! Finally the owner of the boxer told his dog to quit antagozing Remington but I doubt his dog knows what that means, and it didn't stop him from coming around. Right about this time a St. Bernard came in and of course came right up to us and at this point Remington was already not in the mood to socialize so I calmly walked him to the gate and we left a few dogs would try to come up to him and he would bare his teeth and try to lunge at them. After we got out of the park he was fine and walked calmly to the car.

Alright Any help would be greatly appreciated and we are working on our recall so I do not have to worry about him coming when these situations arise.

Here is my thoughts on what might be making this worse and how to make it better. We work and then he eats dinner so I wonder if because he is hungary that he feels like they are interferring with his job and getting back to dinner. I have thought to take him without his ball but when we get there he knows why we came and he is very eager to get going and that is all he wants. SO I was thinking I should take him to the field by my place and let him chase the ball and then take him back feed him and try the dog park after his energy is down. I was also thinking about feeding him before we go and play with the ball. Thinking maybe it is just oo long for him to go in between meals. Remington is super smart so I know I can train this out of him but suggestions on the best way would be helpful! Thanks!

[pdlucky]

One more thing. This has gotten worse now that Ruby has passed on.

[Dutchringgirl]

My suggestion is to stay away from the dog park. If you have a field that he can play and run in and chase the ball, go there. Dogs and owners at dogs parks are usually clueless, I took Sadie once, stayed far far away just so I could get her to the water, and kept getting other loose dogs cumming up and they dont listen to the person, the owners could not understand my upset. It sounds like Remmy is trying his best but the dogs are just annoying him, he is under more stress and could be depressed after loosing Ruby too. I would just not go to the dog park.

[felixone123]

I agree with Lisa. He knows Ruby is gone and he feels and has felt the stress for the past several weeks.

[pdlucky]

Thanks I had thought about just steering clear of the dog park but I wanted to be able to let him socialize with others. How do others socialize ther Dutch if you can't take them to the dog park. Or should I just give it time let him get over losing Ruby and maybe try again in a month? I guess the other thing I need to think about is he is our dog and behaves great around us at home and on a leash so should I just not worry about him getting along with other dogs? That doesn't seem right to me either. What if we have friends coming over and they bring their dog? I am leaning toward trying again after his "leave it" and "come" are 100% and I know he will come when told. I know I can get there. He learns amazingly fast after two sessions of about 5 to 10 minutes each he has touch down if I hold out my palm or if I hold something he will nose touch it and I have been able to toss it down and then give him the touch command and he goes and touches it. However i tried it with a small piece of bread and he did touch it but then quickly followed it up by eating it. LOL maybe a little ambitious on my part.

[Choochi]

Ditto no more dog park for him. Can you play chuck it with him else where safely?

Don't force him into socializing with other dogs when he is very obviously not interested in doing so and the presence of other dogs stresses him out. He is being protective and territorial over you and it is not fair to any of the other dogs and other dog owners to bring an aggressive dog into the park.

Or.. don't bring the ball into the dog park if it is the source of the tension, although it sounds like it's not just the ball and he is also protective over you and has no interest in interacting with the other dogs in your company.

You can also set up playmates for him with dogs and friends you know well. You don't have to go to a dog park to socialize him with other dogs. I'm actually not a fan of dog parks at all. Too many idiot owners and too many good dogs get ruined or injured.

[Dutchringgirl]

I dont focus on socialization. I really never did it. I would walk in town and not make any deal of anyone or anything, when someone, human or canine, passed, i would go to the side, they would sit and focus on me until they passed. Thalie was always just friendly, I never made her socialize. Same with Sadie, my parents would just bring their BH around and they all just got along. I only have one friend that I allow her dogs to come over, they are small and my parents dog is always allowed, but thats it, I really dont want every animal in my house. When my friend brought her old crotchety chiwawa, I just watched Sadie, but Cricket took care of herself and set her boundaries with Sadie. I have brought them to doggy day care and never had a problem.

Im not sure how long it will take Remmy to get passed Ruby. When my X left and took his dog, Thalie was soooooo depressed for a good few weeks. Then I would notice that after the weekend at my parents house, Thalie would come home and for the first day back, walk through the house letting out little whines, So...... I decided to get another dog for Thalie..... thats how Sadie came into the picture. They are pack animals and even though we are their pack, they seem to do better with another dog.

[Schlussdibusti]

When I took my Labs to the beach, they loved to interact with other dogs and were seeking contact. Marco really doens't care much about other dogs. He is focused on the toy du jour and that's it. Unfortunately, other dogs and even stupid people try to take his toy, and then he defends it of course. Most dogs leave when he is "talking dirty" but if there is another dominant breed, I am right there and take care of it. Marco is not dog aggressive but he will not back down either when challenged. I also have to be careful when another dog tries to antagonized my senior Lab, Marco will be right there and defend his buddy. He is his "body guard".

Marco has social interaction with his "girld friend" Tori, Malinois. They respect each other and only go so far, although it looks and sounds sometimes scary, they never have drawn blood and never had a scratch. And I checked thouroughly, believe me. But toys will be removed so no issues might arise.

To make a long story short, dogs parks and beaches, are a source of trouble when you have a dominant breed like a DS. Try to find a dog and owner you trust as his "play mate". Nothing tires them out more than romping around with another dog. And otherwise use the field you mentioned for ball and tug play. A DS is a working breed and not like a Lab who wants to socialize and play and being goofy.

[pdlucky]

Thanks everyone this is all good information. I would never have thought of Remington as aggressive. He minds his own buisness and I have seen him play with a few of the other dogs but he does like to just play with me. I have a feeling that because of my bad knee Remington may be protective of me at the dog park. The first time we went that big St. Bernard came over and clipped my bad knee causing it to buckle and I let out a cry of pain so maybe that has made him protective of me. As for him being depressed about Ruby I was not expecting that one. He and Ruby did not get the chance to play much together because of her hips and spine and he would always try to push his way in if she was getting attention. He seems to acting back to his normal self at home he was a little reserved for a day or so after she was gone.

On another note I was at the grocery store last night and I saw the owner of another DS/mix and he saw the whole thing the previous day and said that that boxer had gotten into a fight with another dog just a couple of days previous. So my thought is he came into the park looking for action. I have only known a couple of boxers and those ones were always up for getting into it with other dogs. That owner wants me to come back so his DS and mine can play but I told him it will be a while before I go back I want to have his recall at 100% so that if there is any issue it stops immediately. So until I know he will come every time no questions asked then I wont be going back. I will probably talk to that DS/mix owner and try to set something up with him to meet somewhere for socializing. Until then it is the field by my house and obedience training.

[alexis]

It also might be time of day/hunger related. Zane is great in the dog park in the morning and good with other dogs any time he's on leash but starts fights (nothing serious, just being obnoxious) in park in the evening. At first I thought my husband doing something weird to prompt the bad behavior in the evenings (because I had no trouble with him in the morning). But, then I took Zane to the park in the evening a few times, and he just wanted to pick fights. I think it was a combination of having been cooped up all day and being hungry and therefore being more likely to be snappy.

Zane only gets to go to the park once or twice a week (for all the reasons people mentioned above, I only take him if I'm up extra early in the morning so we can go when it's empty or close to it), but has some dog friends in our building and neighborhood that he visits with and wrestles, and he goes to (and loves) doggie day care when I have a busy day at work. So, not being great at the park is definitely not the end of Remington's social life.

[Choochi]

Just because the boxer was in a fight doesn't mean he started it. I find a lot of dogs tend to pick on boxers for how they look and the sounds they make. They are often misread by other dogs and perceived as aggressive when they are just standing there breathing making snorting sounds like a pig. Also their natural body posture is very forward and upright and some dogs perceive that as a dog posturing in a threatening manner.

My Athos can be very protective of me with other dogs. He can play very well with them, he can get carried away easily, but when he's below threshold he's fine. But if another dog as much as bumps into me, he'll come running from across the yard to tag that dog.

[lisaanne]

We've also had our fair share of ups and downs with the entire dog park experience, and have decided that this sort of "socializing" might not be in Beta's best interest. Like Remington, I do not consider her to be dog-aggressive, but as a dominant breed she does tend to behave differently than the more social Goldens, Labs, etc that tend to congregate at the park. Beta also likes to stay in between myself, my son, and Puddles so no other dogs can get too close, unless they are puppies. She loves Puppies, and certain smaller dogs. She is smart enough to differentiate and interacts much gentler with older, younger, or smaller dogs.

BUT, (you knew the but was coming, right?) Beta does seem to have some sort of intensity about her, and tends to "stalk" many dogs, others her size or bigger. She gets down like a cat, stalking, and ZOOM is there! She just "hits" them, and they will spin, flip over, or freak out, and by the time they recover or get to their feet, Beta is long gone. I have yet to see a dog keep up with her in speed, strength, or agility. And I don 't mean to say this arrogantly. This is one her great charachteristics IMHO, but it also tells me that maybe a park full of laid back labs and goldens might not be the best place for her, and especially for them.

Awhile ago, before we came to this decision, Beta pulled her sneak attack on a much larger lab sort of dog. (my son had her at the park without me-he is 23 y/o) Anyways, she snuck up on this dog, and sort of rammed into him, and took off again. This dog took a long time to get up and moving normally again. I was absolutely mortified to hear this.....We will keep her active without the dog park experience, and continue to seek out other dogs either more capable of handling her style of play and socialization, or ones she can "mother" and take care of.....

ps I think a lot of dogs have particular breeds and types of behaviors that set them off. Beta does NOT like weimaraners. I have no clue why, but she hates the neighbors dog and any other weimaraner she sees. Weird. (hopefully I spelled that correctly!!)

[Dutchringgirl]

Beta does seem to have some sort of intensity about her, and tends to "stalk" many dogs, others her size or bigger. She gets down like a cat, stalking, and ZOOM is there! She just "hits" them, and they will spin, flip over, or freak out, and by the time they recover or get to their feet, Beta is long gone. I have yet to see a dog keep up with her in speed, strength, or agility. And I don 't mean to say this arrogantly. This is one her great charachteristics IMHO, but it also tells me that maybe a park full of laid back labs and goldens might not be the best place for her, and especially for them.

Awhile ago, before we came to this decision, Beta pulled her sneak attack on a much larger lab sort of dog. (my son had her at the park without me-he is 23 y/o) Anyways, she snuck up on this dog, and sort of rammed into him, and took off again. This dog took a long time to get up and moving normally again. I was absolutely mortified to hear this....

I can understand your mortification but I just had to laugh, It reminded me of when, at the time I had a Pit / Rott mix and she would come to the horse farm with me, there was another woman who had 2 Dobbies. They loved to play and run, now you can imagine these three running! The woman and I were riding and the dogs were playing, Molly, my girl, was standing waiting for one dobbie while the other came from nowhere and TBoned Molly, and Molly went flying in the air!! She saw stars alright. The woman was mortified but I almost fell off my horse laughing, I knew Molly was ok.

[Schlussdibusti]

The body slamming and ramming is a typical Lab play. My two black Labs did that all the time with each other and with other Labs on the beach. Sometimes I thought rips must have been cracked. But no, they stand up, shake it off and go at it again. Goofy Labs

[GSDNanny]

There are no dog parks here and I would definitely not be able to bring Zip as she does not play well with others. Notta, nil, no way. I dont think other dog owners would appreciate her dismembering their dogs either. :samurai: What can I say, she is just a nasty B**CH!

Lisa, that is a hoot how Beta just goes on assault. So the other dog is just standing and she takes a full run and bolts him over and keeps zooming? Is she just playing? (trying to get a mental visual on this). Now my GSDs I've had in the past used to body-slam and I would try hard to stay out of the line of fire as this play took a toll on my knees. You could hear them knock the breath out of each other, tumble and keep on playing.

[pdlucky]

Here is an update! On Friday I talked with the trainer at obedience class and she said that Boxers in general often times have this effect on other dogs due to the the way they tend to greet other dogs front on and their natural posture makes them appear aggressive when greeting, this added with the fact that they tend to grunt and snort really makes other dogs standoffish towards them. She urged me to take him back to the dog park and continue his socializing. So on Saturday, against everyones better judgement, I decided to give it a try and see how things went. When we entered the dog park there was another boxer running around and Remington was acting his usual hyper self when we go to the dog park. Once inside Remington realized I did not have the chuckit but I did have his ball in my pocket. Instead of walking to the area where I usually would go I went to a different spot and sat down on a log. There was about 4 or 5 dogs there and quickly Remington engaged with them and started running around and playing with them. Every so often he would come back to me and check to make sure I was good and then he was off again to run with the others and join the chase. After about 15 minutes or so Tank the brindle boxer from before showed up. This time when he came into the park he went up to the other boxer there and started to play and a few minutes later they all joined together in the group play. There was no problems with him and Remington in fact the smelled each others butts and went on their merry way. Once Remington lost intrest in the group I pulled out his ball and we had some fun with it for a while and then I picked it up and told him we were all done and he ran off and played with the others for a while. When we left I felt really good about the trip. On Sunday I took him back with Lisa and once again we didn't bring the chuckit and everything was great again no problems and he was playing again with the others. I think the chuckit may be part of the issue or it was just a missunderstood meeting that started everything off the other day. I am going to continue taking him for now and if I see anymore signs of intolerance (not aggression) then we will leave but for now I will continue to socialize him there.

I do appreciate everyones comments on this but his behavior was so out of the norm from what I had seen from him that it didn't take much convincing for me to try again. Also in class there is an Alaskan Malamute that is aggressive towards other dogs and he has snapped at Remington and Remington did not try to engage or even bat an eye at the other dogs behavior. IT seemed like there was something else causing the issue the other day and I think it may have been a combination of the chuckit and the boxers up front attitude.

[lisaanne]

There are no dog parks here and I would definitely not be able to bring Zip as she does not play well with others. Notta, nil, no way. I dont think other dog owners would appreciate her dismembering their dogs either. :samurai: What can I say, she is just a nasty B**CH!

Lisa, that is a hoot how Beta just goes on assault. So the other dog is just standing and she takes a full run and bolts him over and keeps zooming? Is she just playing? (trying to get a mental visual on this). Now my GSDs I've had in the past used to body-slam and I would try hard to stay out of the line of fire as this play took a toll on my knees. You could hear them knock the breath out of each other, tumble and keep on playing.

Not entirely sure it is a game for her. She likes to be top dog, or at least top BITCH. Yeah, its down low, creep up like a stealth feline, ram like a rhino, and sprint like a cheetah. It IS funny as long as the other dog gets up right away.....but, unfortunately we have to pick and chose carefully who we allow her to "play" with. Puppies are fine, as are older and smaller dogs....but, she does tend to dominate...and she is quite big for a girl. Yeah, I understand about staying out of the way. i better be alert for anyone coming to the door, because she WILL bowl me over to get to the door.

[lisaanne]

Glad things are seeming to settle in for you and Remington. Its a nice outlet for the right dog and dog owner. We do driver past the dog park on our way to hike, and if the "crowd" is right, we can stop for a visit. Just gotta keep close watch over Beta, her behavior, mood, and energy of the other dogs and people. Its one thing to try to be a responsible dog owner, you can't control others....

[Choochi]

It's possible when the ball comes into play he takes it seriously as his job to go and get it and is not in the mood for the other dogs to bother him while he's "working".

[Sugars Mom]

Yeah for Remington! Good for both of you!