Silver?

Harleysmom · Post by **Harleysmom** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:50 pm

Hi - I adopted Harley from Belgian Mal Rescue but I'm more and more convinced she's a dutch or at least mostly dutch. Except she's silver - has anyone else seen a silver dutch?

Christie M · Post by **Christie M** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:17 pm

She is a unique and beautiful dog, that is for sure.

Before going much farther, please take a moment and introduce yourself in the New Member Announcement area. We love knowing the individuals on the forum!!

The lack of brindle on the gorgeous girl indicates that she is not a Dutch. , or at least she does not carry the brindle gene. However, I did not realize that malinois came in silver. I have seen blue mals, but never that light. I can't wait to read what others say!

chimere · Post by **chimere** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:02 pm

jolie !!
oui DS sans rayures peut être
mais pour moi c'est une couleur sable charbonné, couleur autorisé en tervueren mais pas en malinois

pretty!
yes no scratches DS can be
but for me it is a sand color overlay, color tervueren authorized but not malinois

Post by **Dutchringgirl** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:49 am

chimere, the dog with the horse is tervueren? What a fantastic looking dog !!

Harleysmom... very beautiful as well! Body looks Dutchie for the most part but a color expert I am far from. I have two stripey beasts and thats as far as I go. But what a neat color.

What breed has silver? Could that be some form of mutation of the color gene? ( not a genetics expert either)

chimere · Post by **chimere** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:08 am

oui, un jeune tervueren (show) couleur sable
tervueren working sable

yes, a young tervueren (show) sand color next to the horse

tervueren working sand :

chimere · Post by **chimere** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:13 am

Dutchringgirl wrote:
What breed has silver? Could that be some form of mutation of the color gene? ( not a genetics expert either)

le gène I (Ay) ou i donne la couleur sable ou fauve
I est dominant
i est dilué
II = fauve
Ii = fauve
ii = sable (donc plus rare)
fauve peut donc etre :
homozygote I I
hétérozygote I i
mais un sable est forcément homozygote i i .

gene I (Ay) or i gives color or tan sand
I is dominant
i is diluted
II = tan
Ii = tan
ii = sand (so rare)
fawn can be:
homozygous I I
Heterozygous I i
but sand is necessarily homozygous i i.

I think the translation is pathetic!
But I explained very simply

alspyce · Post by **alspyce** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:52 am

Grulla????

Very pretty!

Marjolein · Post by **Marjolein** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:03 pm

It is a grey malinois, they are rare I guess, I have never seen one "live", even in Holland with loads of KNPV bred mali's.
I do know of some silver tervueren, that is more common I think. But if you would have a tervueren bred to a mal carrying the recessive gene for grey, you could get a dos like this.
Very nice dog!

Selena · Post by **Selena** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:13 pm

Never seen this colour, but it's a (cross) mal, no brindle.

vneerland · Post by **vneerland** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:23 pm

chimere wrote: gene I (Ay) or i gives color or tan sand
I is dominant
i is diluted
II = tan
Ii = tan
ii = sand (so rare)
fawn can be:
homozygous I I
Heterozygous I i
but sand is necessarily homozygous i i.

While the "I" allele (=Intense) is believed to exist, diluting phaeomelanin, it has, to my knowledge not been identified nor mapped. And since it dilutes the red, not the black, I am far from convinced that that is what Harley has going on. What are the chances? For her to be part tervuren, and come up with a short haired partner, also half tervuren and carrying the unusual 'grey' as well? Winning the lottery would be far easier!
Add to that the fact that I have never seen a Terv with dark (grey) legs like Harley has and I am even more convinced that a red dilution is not the explanation.
I need to think about what else Harley could be. (breed wise) to come out looking like this. Because it also strikes me that she(?) has dark legs. Most of the Tervs with grey actually have very pale ones. Stunning dog!
@ Harleysmom. Welcome, and like Christie said, please allow us a brief introduction in the new member section and a name so we know who you are besides the owner of a very pretty rescue dog.

Marjolein · Post by **Marjolein** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:59 pm

yup, good point Judith...

But...
What if the black on the legs is an overlay? Like a GSD saddle?
II was just thinking, I only recently saw a 6 month old Mal pup at our dog club, I loved him, he looked like he had been taken by his had and tail, and hung in a pot of black paint. The dog was yellow, but has black legs, and a black mask. The fading of the legs was just like it is on a normal mask, quite sudden but smooth.
Jeez, I wish I could find a pic of this dog...

Christie M · Post by **Christie M** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:10 pm

The pup sitting in the very front of this picture is 1/2 malinois and 1/2 siberian husky.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

He is my friend Maren's dog. I have seen a few from an entire litter a few years ago that looked identical to Maren's. Both were intentional breedings that ended up with pups and mom in rescue.

Just a possibility.

vneerland · Post by **vneerland** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:14 pm

Nice looking dog that you just posted Christie.

(but can people who are not on FB see it too?)
Do you have more shots of him/her?

Marjolein wrote:What if the black on the legs is an overlay? Like a GSD saddle?
II was just thinking, I only recently saw a 6 month old Mal pup at our dog club, I loved him, he looked like he had been taken by his had and tail, and hung in a pot of black paint. The dog was yellow, but has black legs, and a black mask. The fading of the legs was just like it is on a normal mask, quite sudden but smooth.
Jeez, I wish I could find a pic of this dog...

I know the type you are referring to Marjolein. (thinking out loud: perle de tourbiere or maybe even Appie Kamps stock) And that too had crossed my mind. But still..for Harley to be a Belgian (type) grey, it would be part Tervuren (they only ones in the Belgian shepherds that has this "i" thing going on) and so....(full Terv x part terv/part unusually dark charbonee mal?)

I would love to see a head shot of Harley. Full front. (looking for very dark charbonnee dd)

We could also adopt Alspyce's remark: Call it a Grulla. Looks about right to me!

Harleysmom · Post by **Harleysmom** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:08 am

Wow Christie M. that dog looks so much like harley....i've never seen another even close to her in coloring. All her other traits are so Mal/Dutch...I don't know much about Husky characteristics.

http://www.facebook.com/harley.crocemercante

Marjolein · Post by **Marjolein** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:27 pm

wow Christie, that dog does look just like Harley!

and Judith, I agree it would be a very small change that that really happened, but it's kinda fun to figure out how it could have happened.

On that black paw mal, I believe he is part Perle de Tourbiere

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