Leash Reactivity

[steph90]

My DS mix Kodi has began to show agressive and protective behaviors when on the leash. He has never been agressive off-leash, except for guarding his food. Both behaviors are only triggered by other dogs. I am a little confused by this because it is developing at 3 years old, when nothing about being on the leash has changed. He is USUALLY under control (stays in heel position and doesn't lunge), but he crys and growls and makes all kinds of weird noises. I would like to start trying some corrective behaviors, but I would need another dog who is calm and trained, and I don't know if I know of any that would be good to practice with. Even when he sits and stays when I ask, I can't seem to get him to pay attention to me, no matter what food or toys I have. Has anyone delt with this before?

[Dutchringgirl]

Too bad your in FL, we could use Thalie to help Kodi. Sadie isnt food driven either, if I reward her with a treat, it will either fall out of her mouth or just slide down her throat. What I found with Sadie is to just wait and have her make eye contact with me, then she knows she is doing good and will get released. For the food agression, is he okay with you around, what if you sat next to him while he ate, or if you hand fed him. When Sadie growls at Thalie , thalie ignores it or ill step in. When he shows his aggressive behavior, what was the trigger? another dog, new environment? See if you can find the trigger. Also, aggression can be from fear, so look out for something that is scaring him.

[Dutchringgirl]

Moved to Behavior.

[Raven]

Need to break some information down here, but overall for starters, it sounds like some work might be needed in foundation. (?)

You've had him for three years and you haven't been able to get him to focus, or this is part of the new behavior?

You said he's always shown food aggression and it is only triggered by other dogs...are there or have there been other dogs around when he eats? Can you near his food while he's eating? Have you addressed the food aggression in the past?

Reactivity on-lead can be created and can sometimes be hard to break.

As for corrections, IMHO, he first needs to know/learn what is acceptable behavior, then when he doesn't conform....but I don't know the training he's had.

Also, if he is, indeed, leash aggressive, giving corrections, especially if he's amped or over-threshold or in the presence of the trigger, can produce the opposite of the desired effect.

[steph90]

The leash behavior doesn't seem to be coming from fear. His body language is confident and he is sometimes even the instigator. The only time he has problems focusing on me is in public when he is focused on another dog. He doesn't make eye contact, he will sit If I ask so he is listening but he is entirely too focused on the other dog. Like Sadie, the food just falls right out of his mouth even if I can get him to take it from me. Im not sure I can even say it is aggression, because if the dog continues to approach it usually just ends up a noisy over-excited scramble for sniffs. I could be wrong, but it seems more like frustration. His body language doesn't seem aggressive, just the noises he makes. It might also be a bit of a protective thing because sometimes (not always) he will plant himself between me and the other dog. His reaction always varies depending on the reaction of the other dog. Sometimes Kodi starts to growl (again, no aggressive body language) if the dog lingers, and of course I pull him away but I do realize that could be reinforcing the behavior. I would like to knock this out fast but I am not sure what approach to take. This needs to be dealt with before we encounter a dog that amplifies the situation.

As for training, he has taken a couple obedience classes and 6 months of agility. He has good manners in public places aside from his newly developed issue.

The food aggression is only with dogs and my roommates cat. Never ever people. He stands or lies with the food under him (he eats his food throughout the day, despite my attempts at getting him to eat all at once...), and if the cat or a dog approaches the ears go down, eyes averted, stiffens up. If they don;t back off he might do a quiet little snap or growl. I've actually seen kitty (who doesn't understand dog language) step into his bowl with him standing over it defensively, and he just stood there. Eventually she walked away and he ate his food. I never thought it was too serious as I have only seen the behavior in my house, and it is always very minor and he always listens if I tell him ease up. Is this something I need to address as well?

My main concern is the leash reactivity. I have youtubed ways to correct it, but all the videos I have come across are mostly serious aggression and I didn't find any of them particularly helpful. I appreciate any advice you might have! I would like to be able to handle this myself but If I have to call a trainer I will.

[Raven]

I have only a few moments right now, but a couple of things strike me.

I still think reinforcing basic foundation and building new things on top of that are in order. Taking a couple OB classes and agility are great, but if he has trouble translating what's he learned or what he's learned isn't being reinforced to shape behavior....

His eating. I wouldn't leave his food for him to eat whenever he chooses. Put it down and give him 20 or 30 minutes to eat. If he doesn't, put it up. He'll have no choice but to eat, if you stay firm. He's not stupid. And make him work for it. Do some OB and/or some tasks he knows. My dogs have to work to get a morsel the size of piece of dust.

Work on focus exercises daily. He will do it...he just knows he doesn't have to. And he certainly should not put himself between you and a trigger.

I don't know of "quick" fixes with these circumstances.

My adopted guy (animal/dog aggressive, fearless, very confident) couldn't focus on anything except himself and a target, and no matter the treat (wasn't toy or treat motivated), wouldn't take them and if he did, it was by accident and he'd spit them out. Leash aggressive, prong correction amped his drive...blah-blah...horrible. Even sounds on TV would put him in a frenzy. I worked with him on flat collar and off-lead. And proofed him.

He's more a gentleman now, monitors himself, and wants to please me. He still wants to let it rip, but instead he looks to me. I've been able to call him off animals. If he's out back without me and he wants to set the world on fire, I see him stop and look at the house for me--and then comes to the door.

But...your guy's problems aren't what mine were. What I'm saying is that every minute of the day was some sort of OB with him. I never took OB classes with him, but usually no one can rely on taking classes and having it stick. It's a continual thing.

I see this more as a "big picture" thing than one thing to correct. And reliability will never happen overnight.

[johninny]

Steph, have you read the responses to the thread next to this - ''hyper-aroused by dogs...'' ? if not, you might find something there that sounds relevant and useful in addition to what has been written here.

i would try to find a treat that would entice him to focus on me. call his attention to an approaching dog - ''look - there's a dog'' as you shove an irresistible treat in his mouth. get his attention on rewards BEFORE his focus goes elsewhere. the simultaneity means the arrival of the dog is not a surprise - in fact, you are almost rewarding for the approaching presence of another dog and continue to do so as long as his behavior is good. must be some treat that would work. maybe eating all the time at his leisure he is not hungry enough and/or too relaxed about food availability?

[steph90]

I realize it is continual. I exercise his patience and focus everyday. He must sit and wait calmly before he eats, goes through doors, gets his collar on and off, etc etc. We include impulse control exercises in play, daily activities and outside. He knows his release word and listens to it. But because this is such a new thing, I haven't made action towards it other than trying to redirect his attention to me with food. I understand it won't be a "quick fix", I just meant I need to figure out quick how to begin counter conditioning before it worsens. A friend recommended I use the head halter to "guide" his head and to the treat and myself. I watched a trainer use this method but the dog was obviously food motivated. We went to the pet store today and sat outside where dogs were walking past at a bit of a distance, and he could hear barking. We practiced the treat method at a distance where he was still interested in the treats, not the dogs. I guess practicing that at a distance is better than nothing, but I think there will always be a point where the dog is more interesting, no matter how much I try to convince him otherwise. There are 50 things he would rather be doing at all times than eating. Even turkey and beef! Never thought I'd witness that in my life. The time I tried to get him to eat at once, I picked up the bowl after a half hour for 4 days. He didn't even get half a meal in for any of the days, and so I caved. I will try again, maybe with some broth or something equally as tasty for as long as it takes for him to get used to it.

Also today at the pet store, Kodi started to pee on something in an isle. Never ever did I think that would happen... and he did it with me watching him. I've seen dogs pee on stuff in pet stores but... I don't know where the heck that came from. I guess from the pee smells. Related? Maybe if the leash reactivity is coming from him fully maturing?

[steph90]

John, that is an interesting approach. But he just stops caring about food once they get close enough. I spoke to a trainer and she says I just have to be patient and work my way towards a calm greeting. I did see the thread and Kodi used to have all those issues, but we have had a lot of time to work on his problems. This one is new and exclusive to dogs when he is on the leash. This dog eats like a bird. Seriously he is 60 pounds and I do not understand how he is healthy eating as little as he does, which is a contributor to me caving and leaving his food on the ground! But the food availability is also something I never considered. That will be changing tomorrow.

[Raven]

What happened yesterday is how to work through this. (How else would you, especially since you don't know what instigated this new behavior?) Distance+calm & focus = reward. As his successes increase, lessen the distance.

Is there anything that really engages him? (Read: to start making yourself more interesting than the trigger.)

I used tug on my boy for motivation and to help with focus, once we got a fair amount of training out of the way. It wasn't the be-all answer, just a part of it, but it worked.

So what would you say is your guy's biggest and bigger motivations?

While I work my guy on-lead for animal/dog aggression, I also do fun stuff on-lead afterward as well as off-the-cuff so the lead doesn't have quite the associations it used to.

You may be right that this will always be, but it just started so I think if worked on with consistency, you can turn this around.

[steph90]

I would say his toy is more of a motivator than food, but only if I get him super excited about it. While we practiced agility if he got off track I would get him back to me by flailing his toy like a crazy person and playing tug when he came to me. But thats such a different situation. Im so used to being very calm with him on the leash because he gets excited so easily, I didn't really think about tug, only because its been imprinted in my mind. We will give that a try today. Thanks for the help, hopefully we'll see some improvement soon!

[Dutchringgirl]

In Ring Sport, our biggest ally was "look". The decoy was so much better than a tug, but we had to prove otherwise.

[centrop67]

I've been reading this thread with some interest. Radar's leash reactivity has been documented several times here on the forum.

There was a time when he was reactive to everything, but as of late it is ONLY other dogs.

ALL attempts to get his attention pre-threshold are ignored. I've tried commands like Look and Leave-It. I have tried tug toys, ropes, balls, sticks, HOT DOGS, Cheese, shuffling or stomping my feet, spray canisters, weird noises like quacking like a duck - all with very little success. The spray canister actually worked for about a week, and then he decided he was going to ignore it completely.

The gentle leader is about the only thing that has had any real affect. If I quickly, without harsh correction, put some distance between us and the other dog he goes back to walking like I want him to.

The weird thing is that this is not an issue with a couple of dogs he is familiar with. The dog across the street from me - a little white poodle thing - can come flying (running) at us like a banshee and he doesn't even register with Radar. We did counter conditioning with the trainer, and once Radar got familiar with the training dog, he could care less.

And, that's part of the problem. Finding ways to do training that don't just pop out of nowhere. I am in South Florida as well, but I don't think our dogs are the right ones to setup training with.

Of course, that's lead us to walking paths with minimal chance of seeing other dogs.

I wish I had a better answer, so I keep watching this thread for ideas.

[Sugars Mom]

Sugar is that way with other dogs. When we come across a dog she hasn't seen before, she is immediately suspicious of them. She will either avoid or react, or act neutral if she deems that is appropriate (in her mind).

I read the book Control Unleashed by Leslie McDivitt and it helped alot...the book goes through the exercises that she does in her classes and talks about the threshold, and treating when seeing another dog to associate good things with other dogs, etc. It really helped us alot!

I realized not to push or expect Sugar to walk close by other dogs she doesn't know and take cues from her on if its ok or not to get closer.

[Raven]

I read that book some years ago. Not a bad read, but the only thing I really walked away with was how she described a *fearful* dog in the presence of stimuli that excites them. It was on the order of imagining someone blind-folding you and then having them guide you through something (was it a forest?): if you can't see what you fear, how does that lessen your stress? This was in relation to us insisting that fearful dogs stay focused on us, when we may not know they are fearful.

In India, they don't require our dead-on type of focus (or focused heel). They train for the dogs to be able to take in their surroundings while listening and obeying, at least what I've seen. I kind of dig that.

But, the book, as I recall, was primarily aimed at how she came to understand/deal with mostly fear-based issues. (I can't check since I loan out my dog stuff and it's all on loan right now.)

The book is like Crate Games by Garret...something most of us regular-Joes should probably have.

[Sugars Mom]

I guess I liked it because I have a fearful dog...I don't remember the part you described as guiding though a forest...? So, I picked out what applied to me and Sugar, and what worked for us. I think if you dog is not focusing on you around other dogs whether its fear based or not, the excersises are worth a try.

[Raven]

I agree they are worth a try!

Despite his success in this area, my boy, now five (with me for three) will always have that underlying "I want to grab that living, moving thing by the throat" that needs to get managed. I thought given time...but now, it is what it is. Much better but no Pollyanna. Never giving up on the goal, though, got him where he is...and during the journey I found the closest things I can to his particular kryptonite.

It's kind of hard to accept that given his about-face in everything else, that this one stinkin' thing remains a thorn that can't get pulled out completely. So, like everyone else, I just keep trying things based on what I've learned works with him in that wonderfully brilliant but strange mind of his.

Kinda like with kids. You never stop trying to get them to be their best.

[steph90]

So far, the gentle leader has helped us the most. We have gone back to total basics. Like practicing focus outside while there are no distractions. We will work our way up very slowly to more distracting environments, but for right now I at least have control with the halter. I have had great results with it for anyone wondering. I would prefer if he'd keep attention on me because he wants to, but while we work on that the halter keeps him calm and collected even when we're out and about. Its frustrating but we'll keep practicing this way until we can make more progress.

[Raven]

If it works and you have a plan, good for you.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

That sounds a lot like Hendrix. He's only 4 months though. I have gone back to basics on "look up" and I've changed his training a bit so he's building in stays until I release. I've seen some improvement and I've also realized he's in his "I now know the command but I choose when to listen" stage of learning, as well as certain dogs make uncomfortable. He usually shows no posturing or aggressive behavior, just sits alert and watches. So I've been learning his signals for being pigheaded and when he generally does not want to take his eyes off the other dog because he's not keen on him. I'm trying to figure out a way of backing away from the other dog who makes him uncomfortable without making him think we're weak, which seems to be his biggest compliant when I try to get him to back away.