Flight Drama

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

This is more of a rant... If anyone has any insights I'd be more than happy to hear! Today I tried to ship H to his breeder for specialized training. The cargo guys basically were terrified of him as he was doing his snarl and bark routine which, I admit, can be scary if you're not used to working dogs. I should have trusted my gut when I saw their looks and pulled him but I gambled. H was in a Vari 500/700 (the second largest) kennel and we had spent days acclimating him to it. Well two hours after I leave I get a call to come back and get him as he was chewing through the crate. Strange, I thought, as he has NEVER done that. I rush down there and there is ZERO damage to the crate. I question the cargo guys. Turns out while loading H hit the back of the crate hard with "teeth and claws out! He wanted to kill us!"

I pointed out he was in a crate that was almost impossible to break through so they were in no danger. And he wasn't a cat with retractable claws. They weren't near the back during loading and apparently they had tipped H in the crate while lifting, causing an outburst. I asked them if they understood this was a scary situation for any dog and if they tried again. Apparently the answer was no, since they dropped the crate and called me. (Facepalm) I asked if dogs generally move about and thrash during loading which they agreed they do.

To add to this, apparently they had let a larger Rottweiler onto the plane throwing a bigger fit but my 60 pound dog had a scarier sounding snarl than the Rottie which grounded him. I know H doesn't like unknown men around him especially if I'm not there, but when the police are telling me this is the same company that ships insane police dogs, and shipped a bigger menace, I'm kinda at a loss as to why my dog was grounded and others with the same problems (they said the Rottie actually cracked his crate) were let through. Meanwhile more options are being considered and weighed to get him up there. Life is always interesting with the H Bomb....

[johninny]

too irritating to think about. it is the kind of thing that would have slipped me into a coma after my rage had dissipated. and you and H seem to suffer again and again at the hands of morons. i hope it is some sort of cosmic cycle and that everything from here will be perfect for you.

to return slightly to topic, there are a couple [? maybe only 1 ? ] airlines that have special dog transport programs [ united ]. united's dog program was used to get Xander from dallas to newark, nj. they have special trucks and dedicated arrival rooms in the passenger terminals for the dogs. everyone seemed very attuned to the needs of the dogs. the dogs do not get treated like cargo. i had always been against dogs on planes before that. i was impressed. [ now i'm thinking you're going to say this was united! ]

how far does H have to go? to where?

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

I like to pretend it's because we're in TX but that's being too mean to the really nice and not moronic people in the state. It was Delta. Everyone was raving about them and then this happens... He has to get to Detroit where his breeder will pick him up; 1069 miles or a 3.5 hour flight. I haven't looked into United - was that as the dog flying as cargo or checked baggage? I'll add it to my list of places to call tomorrow.

[shana]

Might not hurt to talk to your vet about a mild sedative. For H's sake and the those loading him into the plane. Might be better for him if he's not fully aware of random people and gets to sleep and wake up in a new place peacefully

[johninny]

with United, dogs do not fly cargo. the crates are held in a special area in the plane with good temperature and pressure - they are segregated.

any use of sedative depends on the conditions under which they fly. if something is used, it is best not a ''sedative'' which affects the body but an anti-anxiety drug such as Xanax [this drug fairly unique in this action and is fairly fast-acting] which only soothes the mind and leaves the body normal. it would NOT cut his reflexes but would make his anxiety and this MAY make his behavior less frantic and menacing. i would not count on it to make him more socially acceptable but it would help HIM.

[ maybe the more enlightened handling of animals on some flights has changed things, but when dogs flew as cargo, it was specifically recommended that NO sedative be used as it would lessen their ability to cope with - and survive - the conditions in flight which caused the death of many dogs, particularly those that were sedated. i do not know whether shipping dogs as cargo exists any more, but in cargo, 25% of dogs who flew used to die as a result.]

p.s.,not sure of the distinction between checked baggage and cargo if checked bags still fly un-pressurized as i assume. the only safe way to fly a dog is in a place on a plane that has the same ''climate'' conditions that exist in the passenger compartment. that is what United's special program assures in addition to specialized handling..

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

That's exactly what we're looking into - doggie Valium/Xanax. We have time to test it out before we try again and if that fails I'll drive him rather than risk anything else. Funny thing is he wasn't stressed after the ordeal - he plays in his airline kennel and even asked for pets in it today. No signs of stress whatsoever. I asked him if he thought it was a fun play date traumatizing the airline people and he started wagging his tail hard. At least I know there wasn't any trauma for him! Lol.

From what I've read flying as baggage keeps them in a pressurized area under the plane, and I haven't heard of a story of a dog being refused as baggage. However there are a multitude of rules and limits you have to deal with also. I think United and Delta are the only two with climate controlled and pressurized areas in and out of the plane, if I've been reading things correctly.

I have been told never to use ACE (I forget how to spell the actual name) since it interferes with the dog's ability to control body temperature and I think breathing. I've also been not specifically instructed that it is very hard to OD a dog of Benadryl by the vet (hint hint message there) but then I worry that in some cases too much Benadryl has the opposite effect of drowsiness and could cause hyperactivity. So we'll be forgoing that too. I'm hoping a combo of training and drugs could get him through it. I don't even think DAP would work on him in this scenario either...

[johninny]

you probably already have, but outside of united's dog program, i would ask any airline specifically if he will be in a climate-controlled area when flying - just to make sure.

Xanax itself can be used with dogs. unless given in HUGE dose, it causes no loopiness or anything visible, just makes a dog more accepting of situations that otherwise cause high stress. [ not sure if that's what you meant - Xanax is already great doggie Xanax.] [ i can also testify that even a huge dose - more than i could take in a decade - had no adverse effect on a dog that i know got into a whole bottle of xanax. just made the dog very relaxed in the face of things that normally caused huge anxiety. otherwise, dog had a normal day. interestingly, that dog was never showed that fear again in the face of what had been his nemesis.]

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

So I ended up driving H out to his breeder. Vet flat out REFUSED Xanax or Valium or anything. Yet she happily gave me valium for the car ride (which went unneeded). What confused me is she refused to believe Delta or United had actual pressurized and temperature controlled areas, claiming her experience said otherwise (agree to disagree as I have seen the areas and they are true, at least, for the two planes I've seen), then started claiming Valium lowered inhibitions so it would make him more crazy. She didn't even get on the lowering body temperature part. Wouldn't even let me try it on him to gauge if what she said was true or not.

Anyways, H is happy and learning an insane amount of info up at the breeder. He sends me video of him and in the week he's been gone he's a totally different dog. Much more confident and rocking out the scenarios he's learning up there. Insane amount of progress and even though I miss him like crazy, I know he's getting the training I didn't have access to down here and the best care possible. Now only another 6 weeks to go!

[johninny]

glad it is all settled. quite a drive! you going to repeat the whole thing in a few weeks?

what breeder is Hendrix from and training with? out of curiosity, exactly what is Hendrix supposed to learn and/or what general/overall goal is there?

i keep wondering about my 2 puppies -- that maybe more should be done to prepare them for whatever.
they have so much potential, but i have only done what i normally do for my own purposes - and THAT not even that thoroughly since we took an unwanted 7-month break when they were both so young.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

I may have to, though if everything goes well I may be able to fly with him.

He's from Bunkerdogs USA and training with them too. Since I'm going back for my master's I've been spending more time at school, and was recently "assaulted" (I use quotations because the dude was drunk and with my rudimentary self defense knowledge was able to throw him and get to my car), so I decided it was time to up H's training since besides being a companion he was supposed to be a deterrent as well. He's still young but I felt he had the potential to do more without undue stress on him. They're working on three specific and fairly basic protection scenarios, getting his obedience razor sharp in all situations, as well as more exposure to scenarios I cannot create so I can take him more places without worry. He's already 90% calm around strangers and most new situations, but I haven't had the time/resources to really start his more extensive obedience and exposure training. By the end of this training he should be a lot more focused, have sharper obedience, and be more confident and calm in larger more chaotic situations, be able to cap his drives, as well as knowing exactly when it is okay to use his protection scenarios.

I would say as long as your puppies are happy, you shouldn't worry too much. If someone wants to go into agility with them, or tracking, or IPO, or whatever, it's a lot of specific training; something almost impossible to but a basic foundation on without knowledge of the future. As long as they're confident, good nerves, and have rock solid obedience, I think they're as prepared as you can make them without aiming for a specific target. The most important part is making sure they'll be happy and well adjusted in whatever environment they can head into.

I wish we lived closer! I would love to help you out with the puppies.