Does this puppy have ANY DS?

[brindledog]

Rescue puppy advertised as DS. I knew when I saw her that she wasn't pure, but not sure if she's got any at all.

Her coloring, yes, but her face is very boxy and broad, almost pitbull like. The pictures don't really show how short her muzzle is and how broad her face is in real life. (Neither did the rescue organization's. In their pics she looked like a full DS). Her body is also quite thick and her walk reminds me of a pit or a mastiff- sort of swaying from side to side. She IS mouthy- keeps taking my arm, hand, whatever she can in her mouth, but she's only about 5 months old, so that could just be puppyhood.

Note floppy ears at 5 months. Then again, her adult teeth are just coming in. No idea if her ears were up before.

Any insight?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34154733@N05/shares/gC226L

https://www.flickr.com/photos/34154733@ ... res/9VaBUn

https://www.flickr.com/photos/34154733@ ... res/46WZ7R

https://www.flickr.com/photos/34154733@ ... res/rbb666

https://www.flickr.com/photos/34154733@ ... res/gE79vo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/34154733@ ... res/qT4027

https://www.flickr.com/photos/34154733@ ... res/56y28x

Tried to figure out how to put pics in post, but I put the "img" brackets around it and the post just showed "image." Don't know why... anyone have suggestions on how to embed images, please let me know.

[Dutchringgirl]

my first answer would be yes, this is a DS. The nose is a bit short but she is young so her parts are still growing. Can you take any more pictures with more light? From directly in front of her, and from behind?

[brindledog]

Here's more pics. I think in the front facing sit pic she looks very lab or pit. Lab, really.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/34154733@ ... res/90W59a

She is VERY active and mouthy. But does not strike me as particularly intelligent. She doesn't seem to get commands very well at all, which to me would indicate something other than a DS. She can jump really well, though and has a very strong grip. My god, she's only about 35 lbs or so but she is really, really strong.

Unfortunately I'm not feeling particularly drawn to her, which sucks. I keep thinking she seems more mastiff or pit than shepherd, though never having either of those breeds before, I can't say if puppies of those breeds would be this active.

(Still wondering if there is any way to embed photos from flickr on here- nothing seems to work. I just get link )

[Raven]

A combination of her age and that she came from rescue and that she has someone new in her life with different methods (perhaps compared to no methods at all before) could account for her response to training???

Without knowing any specifics, the first thought would be to work with the dog, not against the dog...i.e., find their motivation, how they learn, observe what they react/respond to and how, etc. Train in a manner that works best for them. You could be doing that...so pardon my stating the obvious.

[Dutchringgirl]

The second set of pictures are better. I will change my answer. Her head is not ds, so she is a mix of some doggie stuff.

From everything else you posted i would say none at all. Even a mix would be more intellegent. ( hope that didnt sound bad). Although, many times Sadie doesn't seem intellegent, but when it comes down to it, she is smart and learnes super quick.

[centrop67]

(Still wondering if there is any way to embed photos from flickr on here- nothing seems to work. I just get link )

There's a newly added FAQ for posting pictures from Flickr.

[brindledog]

I understand that this a new situation, but my first impression when I met her was that she was not a DS and quite possibly not even a shepherd of any kind. However, I stupidly took her out of a sense of obligation because the foster had driven an hour to meet me halfway and she clearly expected me to take the dog. I feel very bad about my decision, as had the puppy been in a local shelter or rescue, I would not have chosen to take her after an initial meet n greet.
In addition to apparently not being a DS, she is also absolutely not housebroken, which is contrary to what I was told. The rescue people said she did pee in the house a little, but not much. But in fact she has peed inside numerous time in the less than 24 hours I've had her, even 20 minutes after I'd taken her outside (which I'm doing about once per hour.). More disheartening, we had JUST gone out about 15 minutes ago and she peed. We came back in, I went in the bathroom for a few minutes and when I came out, she'd pooped in the house! I'd already taken her out several times this morning, and she'd pooped an hour before, so it's not like she had been holding it in for hours!
My last dog, who was either a GSD or DS mix, was housebroken quickly and quite easily. My understanding is that most shepherds are like that. So this behavior strikes me as something very unshepardy. She really just doesn't seem to "get" stuff.
*sigh*
This makes me sad.

[racingiron1]

Visually, it's tough to say what's in that mix. I almost never comment on these threads because I'm far from an expert on DS identification. Heck, even the experts have very little chance of accuracy using just some cell phone pics and a short description. BTW, ears not up at 5 months is not uncommon. As usual, behavior will be the best way to judge. It seems you're dealing with "buyer's remorse" already at less than 24 hours. I strongly recommend some acclimation time before making any judgements. The housetraining is doubtless affected by the move. She's in a new place, new people, new smells--all that. Do you have any info about her past? How long was she with the foster? What did the foster say about behavior or bonding? Were there other dogs there? She might be anxious, scared, longing for friends, etc. Her routine has been scrambled. Did the foster give you anything that "belongs" to her so she'd have something familiar for comfort? Regardless, she's surely stressed out right now. That stress can shut down learning. She's trying to take in all this new stuff, so her attention span is measured in microseconds.

So, definitely give her some time. She'll transform into a different dog in a few days. Take that time to think about what YOU expect from this relationship and what you're willing to provide for HER. Are you dead set on a shepherd? Why? Are you willing to invest in this dog to see if she'll fit with your desires? If not, do you have a way to responsibly re-home her? (You don't have to answer these questions for us, but you should for yourself.) If you insist on a shepherd (for whatever reason) and she's not the one, you should really either work with a reputable breeder or NADSR to have a better chance of getting what you want.

[cordeliandemon]

in my personal opinion shes one of the most "dutch shepherdy-y" possible dutch shepherd puppies ive seen posted on this forum, and would strongly be of the opinion that shes is a DS mix, if not a full DS. (shes also gorgeous btw)

the mouthiness is 100% puppyhood and you can expect alot of it, as for the stocky body thats also puppyhood and at that age demon looked like a completely different animal to what he is now . floppy ears is also 100% norm for a DS at 5 months, my guy didnt have two upright ears until past 13 months of age so be patient and try not to get paranoid about it.

you seem very disappointed with your puppy which is unfortunate, dutch shepherds are extremely intelligent dogs but thats not to be confused with being well behaved dogs by default, or lassy like in any way as it almost seems like you were expecting. i wouldnt expect a puppy you just met to be responding to commands or behaving, she may not even be trained yet. (on that note demon was not a star pupil when it came to housetraining, not by a long shot, so cut her some slack)
theyre also completely different in terms of behaviour and energy leveles from a GSD as you have experience with, im not sure exactly how aware of that you are so forgive me if im stating the obvious here.

demon hated me when i got him, and i mean HATED me. i spent atleast 2 months wondering what satanic possessed monster id brought into my house before he even began to like human touch. all i can really say is i DO think this cute baby is atleast part DS, and i wish youd give her more of a chance to show you who she really is and is capable of growing into.

(edit: i also second what eric said, theres ALOT going on for this puppy right now and that should be taken into account, even an adult dog could start peeing in the house and have a bout of selective amnesia training-wise when under stress)

[brindledog]

I would be interested in seeing puppy pics from anyone on here that now has an adult/full grown DS. Especially anyone whose puppy was very stocky as a puppy. I just can't see her face becoming very Dutchie, or her body, for that matter. All the puppy pics I've seen of DS at this age have much longer, pointier muzzles, closer set eyes, and a much more "delicate" body. Delicate is not the right word, but I'm thinking less thick.

[Dutchringgirl]

yes, her face is very stocky for a puppy DS. I am not on my computer right now with all of my pics of Sadie. Il lpost some tomorrow.

[brindledog]

Just a little update- I took puppy on a long walk and the overwhelming response was "pit mix." It's odd how she can look SO DS in pics, but in real life she is so clearly not. It's like all the photos narrow her face and body... like a natural photoshop!

The organization that I got her from does all adoptions on a two week trial basis, so they have been very accepting of my request to return her to them. It's unfortunate but for the best, as though I don't think pits are bad dogs, I personally do not want one and don't think we' d be happy with each other as a result.

Thanks all for the input!

[cordeliandemon]

poor puppy.

[brindledog]

I have no doubt she will find a good home. She's very cute and wiggly. Just not good fit for me, my cat or my lifestyle.

The organization that I got her from said she hadn't been tested with cats and knew that could be an issue, which is definitely is. I've introduced puppies to cats before and this has been, by far, the worst I've seen.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone.

[cordeliandemon]

youre aware DS are known to be cat and small dog killers yes? the prey drive is immense

[Raven]

DS go after anything that moves, no matter the size. If you're not happy with how the current pup reacted to the cat, not sure if you're accustomed to the intense prey drive of a DS. And yes, they will kill animals. It's quick, then they walk away. (Their prey drive can kick in around children as well.)

It's all water under the bridge at this point, but I hope the shelter has learned from this experience: the pup wasn't tested with cats, and yet you had a cat. I'm guessing you might not have mentioned a cat?

Anyway, best of luck to the pup and to you. Please consider further researching DS, read the threads on this forum (especially "Behavior" and "Whatever"), and possibly get (more) first-hand exposure to them. They're awesome dogs to watch, but a lot goes into their training. A LOT. And it never ends.

[k9lexi]

I saw rescue pup pics online,drove over an hour to look at them and I guess in 5he week or two since the photo was taken they all looked different I took a different pup home and my Akita almost killed it. Took it back the same day. It was 7nfortunate but I learned a lesson my akita would be the only pet in 5he house and I was okay with that it was already said but I would say it is most likely a ds would kill a cat. H3ck, lexi was such a crazy pup we'd threaten to take her back 5o Michigan all the time we joke about it now with her (like she really understands) but all the pain thru gyounger puppy years and training ... she is turning into the most awesome dog I've ever owned.

Good luck on your next rescue. Two of my rescues and I didn't bond right away. It took time to get to know each othe, figure out communication, etc. But when the close bonding came, it was even more precious because of the time and work to get us there ... if that makes sense.

[Dutchringgirl]

I've introduced puppies to cats before and this has been, by far, the worst I've seen.

Wait until you get a DS, it will be worse

I am sorry it did not work out for you.