Here is a new one.

[Dutchringgirl]

Sadie has a new behavior, is this common with young dogs or is this just a Sadie thing.

When Sadie gets disciplined, lets say her nose is in the garbage, she redirects her aggression to Thalie. I tell her no and Ill grab the scruff of her neck, she usually dosnt have a collar on, then she will go over and growl at Thalie, Thalie usually just gives her a look and walks away, no submissive behavior from Thalie, That usually pisses Sadie off more, I do step in and disciplined Sadie for doing that.

[alspyce]

Maybe she thinks Thalie is a tattle-tale????? Is she trying to higher her rank in the pack? Could it be something she learned at the doggie day care?
I've had dogs who thought it was their business to "help" me when I have had to correct another dog, but never encountered what Sadie is doing. I would be very watchful that she doesn't try it with the kids.

[Dutchringgirl]

Well......... Thalie IS a tattle tale If Sadie is doing something that Thalie Knows is not allowed ( Thalie is miss goody goody too) Thalie will walk up to me with this big brown eyed look she has and I just know Sadie is up to no good. Its not all of the time Sadie does it, minor things Sadie wont do it. Sadie is great with the kids, she dosnt play the Alpha game with them, Just Thalie.

[Raven]

Crap rolls downhill. Perhaps she sees her rank as having changed or has decided that it's time to test it. Something appears to be happening with both of the ladies; consider your recent post about Thalie at your parents. Have you seen any other changes, perhaps slight and not worth giving another thought to at the moment?

[Dutchringgirl]

Crap rolls downhill.

thats what I was thinking, Its like when the CEO yells at his employees and they yell at theirs. Thalie is very tollerant, She wont growl back unless she is mad, like when sadie chews on her back leg too much. So Im not too worried about Thalie, Except when she is chewing on my parents doors.

[Dutchringgirl]

Sadie just did it again, She snuck downstairs and got a sock out of the laundry, I saw her scoot around the corner, she has this sneaky gait, and she had the sock, I just went up to her and said "OUT" in a normal voice and she did, then she went and growled at Thalie.

[alspyce]

Maybe after catching her at something you could give a follow up command like "Go lie down", kind of redirect her actions before she goes for Thalie?

[Marjolein]

Maybe after catching her at something you could give a follow up command like "Go lie down", kind of redirect her actions before she goes for Thalie?

I was going to say that

[Dutchringgirl]

Maybe after catching her at something you could give a follow up command like "Go lie down", kind of redirect her actions before she goes for Thalie?

I was going to say that

Ill try that, Ill keep it in the back of my head because its so immediate. Ill try to remember, Maybe Ill set her up with the garbage and see what happens,

Thanks

[Christie M]

I would be more inclined to think of it as an insecurity behavior rather than trying to impose dominance over Thalia. If she is nervous over a correction, she may just be warning Thalia not to add to the stress or just ventings somewhere where there is little conflict. I agree with giving her a specific behavior after the correction to prevent those interactions and I would try not to read much moro it.

[Raven]

Theoretically, if Thalie weren't so laid-back in her "alpha" position, would Sadie be less inclined for that type of insecurity response? Or is her specific response seen as a "growl" by Lisa but understood as something different (a simple vent) by Thalie?

[Dutchringgirl]

Sadie Is insecure, She does seem to seek approval alot. I often wondered too If Thalie didnt mind so much of Sadies stuff, but then she wouldnt have been so good with the kids when they were babies crawling on her and playing with her.

[vneerland]

Without naming the behavior, I personally would follow up on the back talk with another correction.
My dogs don't (get to) vent. Not at me, not at others. If they give me cause for a correction, they'd better be big enough to take the consequences.
For you though, (no offense meant!) I agree with the others that it would be helpful to divert the problem, rather than confront it with a correction.
With that being said. I had a dog once, who was my enforcer. If a juvenile dog refused to come when called, he would listen for my tone to change from normal to p*ssed. As soon as I got mad, he would spurt off, catch the perp and pin them down for me to retrieve. The young dogs would learn to recall and would not look at me first, but instead at the distance of the enforcer, to judge the level of urgency with regards to the expected compliance. Should Thalie be the one who enforces your rules (I do not get that impression though) then it would explain the growls. And it would still not be acceptable.

[Dutchringgirl]

Thanks Judith, I do correct the back talk. Sadie turns a deaf ear, I grab her scruff and pull her off and say NO, Then hold her until the growling stops. I can see here though that that would be the time to put her in a down. I do see that putting her in a down right after her discipline would help before she goes to growl at Thalie.
Thalie is not the Enforcer type unless Sadie really pisses her off.

So far today, no problems, I am keeping all of this in mind when Sadie gets in trouble.

Thanks everyone!

[Marjolein]

With that being said. I had a dog once, who was my enforcer.

I have one of those... comes in pretty handy sometimes, I'm not half as fast as him

[vneerland]

Thanks Judith, I do correct the back talk. Sadie turns a deaf ear, I grab her scruff and pull her off and say NO, Then hold her until the growling stops.

Uh....she does NOT growl at you, right? Just at Thalie?

[Schlussdibusti]

I had a dog once, who was my enforcer.

I got an "enforcer" too, my senior lab. He is running a pretty tight ship!

[Dutchringgirl]

Thanks Judith, I do correct the back talk. Sadie turns a deaf ear, I grab her scruff and pull her off and say NO, Then hold her until the growling stops.

Uh....she does NOT growl at you, right? Just at Thalie?

correct, Sadie dosnt show aggression to me, it gets directed at Thalie.

[Dutchringgirl]

Putting sadie into a down after I punish her is working. Or if she is growling at Thalie, I grab her and put her in a down and she stops giving Thalie the evil eye.

[Marjolein]

good!