IS THIS DUTCH SHEPHERED COLOR A FAULT?

[vans75]

[vans75]

the dam and sire are pure dutch shephered but the pups have different colors? is this a fault color?

[Dutchringgirl]

Oh how cute!!!! Do you have more pictures?

[CaroleBoaz]

Basically, they must be either gold or silver brindle.

FCI
"Colour:
More or less pronounced brindle on a brown ground (gold brindle) or on a grey ground (silver brindle). Brindle all over the body, also in ruff, trousers and tail. Much black in the upper coat is undesirable. A black mask preferred.

FAULTS:
Too much white on chest or on feet; white stripes or spots in any other part of the body.
Nose other than black. Wrong colour, mismarking. Too much black in the topcoat."

UKC
"SHORT COAT & LONG COAT
The following are acceptable in the short-coated and long-coated varieties - more or less pronounced brindle, in either brown (gold-brindle) or gray (silver brindle); and brindle all over the body, including the collar, trousers or tail. A black mask is preferred.

Too much black in the outer coat is not desirable."

[vans75]

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[Marjolein]

read this:
http://dutch-shepherd.blogspot.com/

article made by the DS's best friend: Lou
So, yes it is the wrong colour, but they are healthy right?
And... you said "pure-bred"... that's 2 words not everybody uses for the same thing

[CaroleBoaz]

read this:
http://dutch-shepherd.blogspot.com/

Nice explanation, with good illustrations.

[Dutchringgirl]

they look grey.

[CaroleBoaz]

they look grey.

I think it is because they are silver (grey) brindle without brindle? Grey is kind of cool, though.

I'd really love to see how they look when they get older.

[kchristy]

They are pretty Im with Carole, can't wait to see what they look like when they get a little older

[CaroleBoaz]

Another neat thing about that link above is, all the fawn dogs look like DS, and NOT like Belgians.

[vans75]

tnk you very much for your commentim from the phillipines and a breeder of this dog maybe next time i will also like to import dutch dogs to my country as a foundation stocks

[vneerland]

I think it is because they are silver (grey) brindle without brindle? Grey is kind of cool, though.

'Silver', actually, does not exist. I know the standard mentions it, but what makes up the silver shade is just a light colored version of what makes up the gold. The range is from dark mahogany, via more and more pale washed out yellow (like long hair in the the show pictures that Jan posted in "Joep's first show") to a greyish tint. I have YET to see a totally silver colored dog. They all have very visible area's of darker golden shades, proving the theory that for the short and long hair, there is (genetically) no such a thing as silver brindle. They are 'white(er) golden' at best, the color is still controlled on the same locus that produces the dark golden.

[vneerland]

Another neat thing about that link above is, all the fawn dogs look like DS, and NOT like Belgians.

That is Lou's interpretation, yes. But it is nit picking, when it comes down to it. I am certain that many, including myself, would not agree. They can be deceivingly malinois in appearance, really. Not all lack the full mask (like so many DS's) and not all have the ''build" that would signal a DS vs Malinois either. I hear lots of people in Holland proclaim about some DS's that they look malinois like, even when they are brindle.
In that case, the standard is being interpreted very narrow, only allowing for a cookie cutter look that currently makes up what some dutch FCI breeders have in stock. The French FCI dogs are already deemed unacceptable, as are most of the German dogs, as are (anything that was not born in Holland, including some that was) It makes for an interesting discussion about what is desirable. One of those subjects that are subjective.

[leih merigian]

Judith...what's the difference in the build between a DS and Mal? I thought there were supposed to be very similar? Are DSs more stocky than Mals?

???

[CaroleBoaz]

I have a UKC Malinois that, admittedly, is not breed standard. Her mother came from CherCar Kennel. When she and my DS are side by side, the differences are very clear to me.

I think with the working line DS, the differences are much less?

But, definitely, look at the rough-coat and long-hair. They look very distinctly different from a Laekenois and a Tervuren. At least, I see it very clearly.

[CaroleBoaz]

For me it's all in the head planes. And then there are differences in the body, especially in the angulation in front. If you read the breed standard carefully, it will explain. Here are the UKC drawings from their breed standards.

[Dutchringgirl]

I saw a difference in the build of the Mals vs DS, the DS males were much stockier than the Mal's.

[kchristy]

such interesting conversation

[Marjolein]

the clearest difference according to the standard is that a DS should be body lenght : withers height 9:10 where a mali schould be square.
The drawings of the UKC are therefore confusing (and wrong ), as the bodies of both dogs are the same=square, where the DS shoul be a tad longer:


(image from www.hollandseherder.nl)