Dutch Shepherd Forum

CaroleBoaz wrote: I think I read that in The Netherlands, you can provisionally register a DS without a pedigree, but it has a special code, and offspring are not considered "pure" until there are three generations. Maybe some of the Netherlanders on the forum can confirm this. I don't remember where I read it.

People overhere would be screaming of joy if that was possible
So no, it is not true.
This is possible in the countries surrounding Holland (Belgium, France, and Germany has closed it since 2 years, but before that lots of dogs were registered.

The KNPV guy in Dingo I described (Carto) was from the 70's, he was let in and got papers right away (no 3 generationes!!) and had LOTS of offspring. Nothing wrong with that.
Now that it's been closed, certain breeders found it too much trouble to import from the countries where it was allowed to mix and wait 3 generatioens... so they found another way Like Christie said, it's not good, nobody nows exactly who is who... I know a lot, but never will I know it all So I prefer the legal way anytime.

There also is a database of KNPV dogs www.bloedlijnen.nl, this keeps track of all the working dogs even if they do not have FCI parents. Ofcourse you need to trust on what the owner puts in the database, but there is not much to gain by altering it, so most of it will be correct.

I already apologize upfront whomever I might offend with the following............... BUT................

if I ever have to look for a DS puppy, I would only look at the breeder, the parent dogs, their lineage and health (hips, elbows, etc). I would give a damn about FCI, UKC, bla, bla... I learned through this forum that I wouldn't be able to "handle" certain lines, like van Leeuwens .

Coming from German Shepherds and seeing what the Deutsche Schaeferhund Verein has done to the breed, I think it is almost a blessing that DS are not an AKC registered breed and all the other rules and regulations preventing them to be sometimes FCI, UKC or whatever. A couple of years ago a very old German (human) shepherd passed on who stuck strictly to the von Stephanitz line GS . He kept that line intact. I believe the dogs have no papers because he only used dogs who were healthy and had the right temperament. He refused to sell any and used the offsprings for his own sheep herding. If I could have had one of his GS.....

I found that most clubs organzied by private persons (dog, bowling, soccer or whatever,) are serving some individuals with their personal agenda (like the Steffen brothers, one being the president of the SV, the other a big time breeder) and their monetary goals. And ethic, although in every club statute somewhere mentioned, is just an empty word.

When I rescued Marco from the local pound, I didn't look for a dog of a certain breed. I liked the look, his personality and temperament. I was a surprise when I found out he was a Dutch Shepherd.

Schlussdibusti wrote:I found that most clubs organzied by private persons (dog, bowling, soccer or whatever,) are serving some individuals with their personal agenda (like the Steffen brothers, one being the president of the SV, the other a big time breeder) and their monetary goals. And ethic, although in every club statute somewhere mentioned, is just an empty word.

True. But people have a vision when they enter into clubs, of what they perceive as ideal, and they strive to achieve that. My ideal DS is a far cry from a lot of what goes on in NHC (the Dutch breed club) circles.
They have their agenda that, in my opinion, is not always conductive to breed perservation or betterment, but in their minds, it must be. So who is right? Oh yes, big breeders will have say so, via lobbying or via elected positions. The only thing we can all do, is to be open to the need and vision of others. I do not like poodels, or GSD's, or long- or rough haired DS's for myself, but they make great dogs for others. I do not like show dogs, but it is a great passtime for some others. They might hate working dogs, but they are a passion for others. There is no escaping personal vision, even inside clubs, no matter what club you are talking about. If one is lucky though, enough diversity will be allowed, to serve all needs.
But you'd have to be really lucky.

This is OT because about GS but from the breeding point of view very interesting, IMHO

Here is a link to the website about the German shepherd breeder I was referring to in my previous post:
http://www.german-shepherdherding.com/memoriam/

And an interview about breeding with an interesting statement "Obedience is genetic" :
http://www.german-shepherdherding.com/t ... the-breed/

Schlussdibusti wrote:I already apologize upfront whomever I might offend with the following............... BUT................

if I ever have to look for a DS puppy, I would only look at the breeder, the parent dogs, their lineage and health (hips, elbows, etc). I would give a damn about FCI, UKC, bla, bla... I learned through this forum that I wouldn't be able to "handle" certain lines, like van Leeuwens .

Coming from German Shepherds and seeing what the Deutsche Schaeferhund Verein has done to the breed, I think it is almost a blessing that DS are not an AKC registered breed and all the other rules and regulations preventing them to be sometimes FCI, UKC or whatever. A couple of years ago a very old German (human) shepherd passed on who stuck strictly to the von Stephanitz line GS . He kept that line intact. I believe the dogs have no papers because he only used dogs who were healthy and had the right temperament. He refused to sell any and used the offsprings for his own sheep herding. If I could have had one of his GS.....

I found that most clubs organzied by private persons (dog, bowling, soccer or whatever,) are serving some individuals with their personal agenda (like the Steffen brothers, one being the president of the SV, the other a big time breeder) and their monetary goals. And ethic, although in every club statute somewhere mentioned, is just an empty word.

When I rescued Marco from the local pound, I didn't look for a dog of a certain breed. I liked the look, his personality and temperament. I was a surprise when I found out he was a Dutch Shepherd.

Agreed!

Same here I don't care for papers..as long as you know what your looking for and the dog gets the job done..and healthy parents hips elbows good breeder etc..you wont be disapointed in any DS papers or not..

was just looking around the early GSDs. Gee, some of them just need stripes....

http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/ ... tarkenburg

Schlussdibusti wrote:was just looking around the early GSDs. Gee, some of them just need stripes....

http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/ ... tarkenburg

Like this?
(On the left is a GSD) http://www.eastgermanshepherd.com/ds1.jpg
Of course, the GSD, Belgian and Hollander come from the same continental herding stock, a little over a 100 years ago. The main difference used to be color (who picked what shade to suit their taste) so it is not surprising how interchangeable they were. The DS has not changed much from it's beginnings, while the GSD started to follow a totally different taste. I currently have a rescue GSD, nice straight back, not too heavy boned, good structure, very pretty dog. I love that 'old fashioned' look so much more than what they have morphed into.

vneerland wrote: Like this?
(On the left is a GSD) http://www.eastgermanshepherd.com/ds1.jpg
Of course, the GSD, Belgian and Hollander come from the same continental herding stock, a little over a 100 years ago. The main difference used to be color (who picked what shade to suit their taste) so it is not surprising how interchangeable they were. The DS has not changed much from it's beginnings, while the GSD started to follow a totally different taste. I currently have a rescue GSD, nice straight back, not too heavy boned, good structure, very pretty dog. I love that 'old fashioned' look so much more than what they have morphed into.

Schlussdibusti wrote:was just looking around the early GSDs. Gee, some of them just need stripes....

http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/ ... tarkenburg

From an old GSD publication.

Amazing!

WOW, my GDS is also is special color "very dark sable with a red undercoat"....

vneerland wrote: (On the left is a GSD) http://www.eastgermanshepherd.com/ds1.jpg

on the RIGHT is the GSD, right?

just remember, where you're watch is, that is left