Dutch Shepherd Forum

These things always happen after hours, or in weekends.
One of my DS's was barking earlier tonight, right around dusk. I did not think anything about it, even though it was a constant high pitched yip. I went out about 30 minutes later, maybe more but not much, and found that she did not immediately get up to come greet me. When she did, I noticed the limping and a quick check revealed a front paw that had swollen up dramatically. I took her inside where she made herself comfortable on my bed. I am pretty sure that benadryl did nothing but I am not sure what else I can apply? Another hour has passed and the swelling has progressed to the rest of the leg too. I can only guess. No wounds that I can see, so I will assume that she had an argument with a spider, scorpion, centepede, snake, what have you. They did not leave a business card though and right now, I don't care as much about what it was, as how to stop the progress of the swelling.
Any tips are greatly appreciated!

Some Rimadyl (OR if you happen to have it, Prednisone) would help, of course depending on what it is. Ice pack and/or epsom salt soak. I tend to use the epsom salt if you can find a wound, ice if you are sure there is no opening that can have toxins drawn out of.

Don't have any advice for you...

How is she doing?

Major drag, Judith. Hoping to hear good news soon....

Thanks! The swelling progressed last night, from just the foot/wrist to the entire leg within the hour. It swelled to twice its size. I did have rimadyl (or Deramaxx) in my dog-pharmacy, as well as prednisone. I will add epson salt to my in stock items. This morning when I read Asheleys post, it was already going down a bit. Not gone yet, still a limp, but no longer looking as dramatic as it was last night. I will know how to act next time, though I hope that it will be so far in the future that I have forgotten all about it by then

That leads to the question that if this was a snake bite, what snakes will really endanger your dogs life and what do you do/how do you judge if you need to panic or not? We have the usual southern pests: copperheads, coral snakes (yikes) rattlers (ouch) and water moccasins (eeek) Is there something that one could keep on hand to counter act the venom? If this was a snake bite that she received, she sure is coming back from it faster than a human would. That leads to the assumption that their bodies process venom differently than we do?

I have known of many dogs to simply die from a poisonous snake bite, and quickly. I am not sure what got your dog, but I would say it probably was not a well delivered venomous bite.

One thing I did want to mention - benedryl is great and what I would grab first. If my dog was swelling fast, I would dose high at 1.5-2mg/lb. For others reading this who don't know, you cannot use both Rimadyl (or Deramax) with Predisone. You need to get the dosages and use one or the other.

I really wonder what she did?? I was thinking maybe she got it caught up in something and caused a strain/sprain. That could cause some severe swelling with limping, but no outward injury. Poor girl. I'm just glad she's doing better.

I'm so glad to hear she is recovering so quickly! Whew. Hope the cortisol has drained from your system.

I found scape marks in her kennel today at daylight. She pawed at something, leaving me more convinced about the bite theory. Whatever it was packed a good punch, but in all fairness, while it is still swollen today, a lot less so than right after the fact. Maybe a scorpion (yes, we have those) or a woolly bear (caterpillar)
The benadryl did not seem to help a lot, but I might have dosed too conservatively, and it is very good to know the other options I can explore, should this ever occur again. Probably not to this girl, assuming she has a good learning curve.
My cortisol (ha ha Leih!) went right down along with the swelling.

@ Asheley: So the epsom salt is the best option if you do find puncture wounds, and the ice if you don't? Correct?

A little bit of summary: sudden swelling (that suspicious of a bite or allergic-type reaction) you can use Benadryl with either Rimadyl (Dermaxx, Previcox, other doggie NSAID) OR Prednisone. As Christie mentioned, you should never use an NSAID with Prednisone. But Benadryl in combo is fine.
If there is a draining wound of any kind the epsom salts are nice - abcesses, those lovely grass awns "foxtails" that work their way into the skin esp. between toes, etc. Of course it works best if the wound to be soaked is on an extremity and can be submerged and soaked without your dog creating new wounds on you! Swelling of unknown cause, ice never hurts.
Glad she got better! I don't hear of too many dog invenomations here even though the mountains are rattler country. Seriously, you have coral snakes there!? I thought they were only in Florida and endangered species! But sure, they can have skin sloughing (from tissue death at the bite site) or die from it. I don't know that they are more resistant to bites, if you look at literature there aren't too many actual deaths in people either, compared to the high number of bites that occur. And of course kids (or small dogs?) being at much higher risk.

BOHHhh, how is she now? Sure glad we don't have any of those creatures overhere Maybe after the swelling gets down you can find puncture wounds, they would leave tiny little crusts wouldn't it? Eeek! Sure hope the swelling goes down quick...

The swelling was down considerably the next morning. I will have to assume that it was not a coral snake (yes, unfortunately we have those and shot one just 10 yards from out front door a few years ago) or anything that toxic. I never did find any puncture wounds but feel sure it was a bite or sting.
I was at my computer the other night, and some mosquito under the desk was having a great time with me. I pulled out a flashlight to see it so I could kill it on its next attempt to sting. Instead, I all of a sudden fealt something crawl up my leg, much bigger than a mosquito. My flashlight aimed (I would not have had it at my desk if it had not been for the skeeter) I expected to see a big texas roach, but saw something vaguely looking like a spider, but not quite. I brushed it off quickly and aimed the light at the ground where it should have been. Not. So it was still on me. Another quick brush off and this time it fell and it was what I thought it had seen in the very first instance. (but my mind would not allow me to consider that) A scorpion!!!
I am incredibly lucky that I did not get stung by it. While most species willl not kill a person, it's neurotoxin would sure pack a nasty punch. The only other time I have seen them around, was years ago when we had a similar very dry summer. I read they come inside seeking moisture. I assume that the dog kennels with the water buckets will also be on their route and the poor dog possibly got stung by one.

OMG, Judith...a scorpion crawling up your leg! Yuckola!

Coming in for water during dry weather sounds about right, too. Ants do it, why not scorpions?

So, do you check your shoes and boots before putting them on? I would!

Glad your dog is doing better, and that it improved so quickly.

(hate those kinds of mysteries<g>)

ok, my "I wanna move to America" dream has just been crushed, forget it, I'll suffer the rain

I'm really not that scared, but I was in Africa and even the locals do NOT like scorpions, where they still appreciate cobra... A scorpion bite HURTS Pfff, you were lucky, and I guess the dog wasn't... Is there something like a scorpion trap, like mousetraps? Or are they not into traps

marjolein,

That is okay...no American in their right mind would want to move to Texas either... but it's just a small part of the country. Maybe you could try Rhode Island??

Eric

icvanstra wrote:That is okay...no American in their right mind would want to move to Texas either... but it's just a small part of the country. Maybe you could try Rhode Island??
Eric

See? Remarks like the one above are the cause for a group of Texans who want to ceccede from the US and form a republic of Texas. (voor Marjolein: afscheiding)
Accoring to us down here, nobody in their right mind would move to Rhode island either. We'd rather deal with scorpions, Many texans consider that friendlier venom than the other 'insects' that live up that way.

oooh, I'm gonna sit back and enjoy this one

Ohh, this is gettin' fun!! Heck, the skeeters are so huge here that we have a landing strip for them! Just kiddin, kind of. Doing any type of outside activity in my area is a chore just fighting the bugs. And the fire ants are downright horrible. They move fast and are vicious! So I am trying to move the sheep to train the dogs in herding, swatting mosquitoes who have somehow figured out the few spots (like my scalp) where I have not sprayed repellant, then step into a new fire ant hill and I just wonder, WHY BOTHER!?! Thank goodness I havent seen any scorpions like my TX neighbor. You all up north need to be very thankful you dont have fire ants. For one thing, they play heck on trying to start a new pup on a tracking a baited track. Gosh, what was the topic of this thread again?! Seriously though, down south, it could be a multitude of critters that could cause the swelling.

A friend in Lake Charles who had some quality Dobermans had one get bitten by a copperhead right after hurricane Rita moved thru that area. She brought the dog in to the vet who treated him; the dog seemed to progress but on like day 4, his brain swelled and he died. Needless to say, my friend was devastated. I havent researched this but somehow the toxins settled in the brain tissue. Anyone know more about this?

Anyway, hubby and I really have discussed where we will live in TX when TX finally succeeds from the US. Beware Judith, we may just become your neighbors!!

Oops, forgot to sign my reply.

Denise Gatlin
Louisiana

GSDNanny wrote:Ohh, this is gettin' fun!! Heck, the skeeters are so huge here that we have a landing strip for them! Just kiddin, kind of. Doing any type of outside activity in my area is a chore just fighting the bugs. And the fire ants are downright horrible. They move fast and are vicious! So I am trying to move the sheep to train the dogs in herding, swatting mosquitoes who have somehow figured out the few spots (like my scalp) where I have not sprayed repellant, then step into a new fire ant hill and I just wonder, WHY BOTHER!?! Thank goodness I havent seen any scorpions like my TX neighbor. You all up north need to be very thankful you dont have fire ants. For one thing, they play heck on trying to start a new pup on a tracking a baited track. Gosh, what was the topic of this thread again?! Seriously though, down south, it could be a multitude of critters that could cause the swelling.

A friend in Lake Charles who had some quality Dobermans had one get bitten by a copperhead right after hurricane Rita moved thru that area. She brought the dog in to the vet who treated him; the dog seemed to progress but on like day 4, his brain swelled and he died. Needless to say, my friend was devastated. I havent researched this but somehow the toxins settled in the brain tissue. Anyone know more about this?

Anyway, hubby and I really have discussed where we will live in TX when TX finally succeeds from the US. Beware Judith, we may just become your neighbors!!

Denise. You would like Texas. Skeeters (mosquito's for those who do not speak southern) are still plenty big and multiple, but they will not be able to lift you off the ground like they can in Louisiana.
And since everybody from south of the border moves here, I am sure we can handle someone from the right border as well. Come right on up. This north eastern part is beautiful. (and if you move near Caddo lake, you will never even notice you left Louisiana)

I would love to hear the experts opinions about the deadly copperhead bite.

GSDNanny wrote:Oops, forgot to sign my reply.

Denise Gatlin
Louisiana

All ya have to do is call BILLY, THE EXTERMINATOR!! He is of course appropriately in Louisiana where a large assortment of varments are, actually not far from Caddo. A dog training friend trains his producer's PB so she keeps me up with him.
My grandson (3) mimics Billy all the time "Awww, SNAAAAKKKKE!!!"

You are right though, Judith, EastTX is absolutely gorgeous, piney woods, rolling hills. Parts used to be referred to as no-mans land where the western outlaws hid out from the law.