Dutch Shepherd Forum

So as not to hyjack the dog aggression thread, switched over to discuss or vent about idiot dog owners. Yes indeedy!

How in the world do you train dog owners? Therein lies my largest frustration.

For instance, I take in-house boarders for training (one at a time), everything from social to ob to house, crate, vehicle training. Had an obnoxious yellow Lab/HoundX in for two months. Totally out of control. Dog was being trained or going to the shelter. Told them I would try. I really did not like the dog at first. Now this owner is supposedly intelligent; a local physician who owns her own practice, lives in a gorgous humongous home, makes big $$.

The dog ended up being a real doll, passed her CGC, had a super nice nose for scent, playful, willful, intelligent. No longer leaped on everyone and everything in sight, very mannerly. Not one accident in the house.

I always teach the dogs crate training first thing to esp aid in housetraining. I also teach the owner to not ever let a dog out of a crate when it is whining/barking unless you suspect it needs to potty. You should be able to know. I always give detailed written instructions after a lengthy owner education session, providing my cell to call. Sounds easy enough, right?

So the dog goes home, three days later, I call to check up. Seems she free-feeds the dog (I told her not to), doesnt keep it on a potty schedule (We had established a schedule) and lets the dog out of the crate as soon as it whines (no-no). So the dog peed in the bed (owner's) and poops in the house, and she wont crate it because the poor baby barks/whines to get out. Now who is in control here? GRRRR!
She says, I cant do a thing with this dog. Ya think! Well lady, here's ya sign!! Or maybe it is mine because after several of these type owners recently, I'm giving this hard thought. Training dogs is easy, training owners is futile.

Hey mods, you can delete this first post, not really DS related. Tried to delete it myself but this computer at work is so antiquated, wont let me. Just needed to vent and I feel a little better now.

Hey, my neighbor has a golden-doodle that totally runs her life. The dog lunges at cars on walks, barks at everything, and pulls like the dickens - when SHE walks it.

At times I'll take her dog out for a walk when she can't get home. I bring my martingale collar (she uses a prong). After a couple minutes of "being a tree", the dog gets the idea and knows not to pull, ignores the cars and we have a nice walk. Sometimes a few reminders are necessary, back to "being a tree".

I bring my jute tug over for her to play with while I'm there. She has a ball with it! The first time I brought it, she grabbed the tug and went over to the owner's bed to lay down and chew on it. I went to reclaim the tug, and the dog growled. I knew better, and didn't even hesitate when I retrieved it.

If anybody wants an agility dog, this girl can fly over a 5 foot fence like it was nothing. LOL!

I hope she doesn't google search me and find this.

It is sooo true that it is the owners that need the training more then the dogs. I do not understand why people just don't get it...not educated about dogs enough? Don't care enough?

I JUST came back from a walk with Sugar and while coming back, we saw a dog (young black lab) coming towards us on the sidewalk that I didn't know. I pulled over to the side to let them pass. I've been working on Sugar ignoring dogs we pass by. As they get closer the dog starts pulling towards us, getting all excited and pulling the owner with it. I think because the dog is excited/friendly instead of excited/aggressive people just don't worry about it. I stood calmly with Sugar hoping Sugar would stay calm but as the dog got closer, Sugar got nervous and stepped back behind me, with her "mohawk" as I call it. The owner managed to pull her dog back before it got right up to us, and just laughed.

Sugar does not like excited dogs at all. I can't get her to focus on me in a situation like this. I could cross the street if there wasn't a ditch between the sidewalk and road.

I mean, if people don't control their dogs, what can I do? If I walk away, it will still freak Sugar out if a dog is pulling towards us unless we are pretty far away from it. Kicking at a excited/friendly dog with owner attached at the leash is not something I would do, and telling the owner to get her dog back is already what she is trying to do, so telling her seems pretty redundant.

Telling people like this...they don't care! Arg!

OK, I feel better now that I just vented! Don't delete this thread.

So then do I get to rant about the total idiots that either lost a dog during a storm last night (on my property, accompanied by her two pups) or dumped her, take your pick?
My youngest but biggest DS flushed momma, a -thank goodness- friendly pit and after my DS recalled (Praise the Lord! Training works) I went out alone to investigate. I found her in the hay shed. She backed up against the wall, tail tucked, shivering, the babies were barking and woofing at me. I sat down for a while, hoping to calm her down also hoping that she would go back where she came from. I am not sure how she got there. Most access is field fencing, so she might have come through the woods somewhere and got herself stuck.
Now what? Our county has no shelter and if they did, friendly momma pit would die, no doubt. I brought some welcomed food this afternoon, they are still camped out, and I led my pack on a different route, trying to avoid further discovery. One of the pups seems to have mange, and so does momma upon further inspection. I hope that was the cause of her shivering. If not, and she is sick, what happens to the possibly soon to be orphans? How much disease are they bringing to my little farm? And why do I kid myself that that has not happened 1000x before I spotted this little family?
I called some neighbors. So far, nobody knows of any such dog(s) around here.
Pitbull, anyone? :

I hear ya brothers and sisters !!

Vent away. I cant agree more. why do people think that having a dog is no big deal then when it poops or is out of control they blame the dog!!!

I also have seen stuff like this with horses too, people would let the horse drag them all over the place, bite and nip at people

My computer lost my long venting reply

Denise...I feel for you! Just because someone is a doctor doesn't mean they're smart, does it?

Judith...that truly sucks!

I'm on the same page with everyone here! Besides the usual not-in-any-control-of-their-dog issues, I can't stand people who don't pick up after their dogs. Period.

Lots of idiot out there---A guy showed me his "very stupid" yellow Lab to see what I thought, and in about 5 minutes the dog was paying attention, healing with automatic sit, stay on 4ft. lead, and sort of getting the down. The guy couldn't believe it, but still never followed through with any training. I told him he had an animal that wanted and would enjoy the work ----apparently the guy didn't. Went by his house about a month later and the poor dog was out back tied to a dog house.

alspyce wrote: Went by his house about a month later and the poor dog was out back tied to a dog house.

Well, looks like I opened up a can of worms here! We will have to tag this thread for future therapeutic venting -

Judith, the most likely scenario was a 'dump' of mom and her 2 pups. Last of a litter they couldnt even give away, let alone sell to make those big bucks they had thought. I also know the anxiety you are experiencing with the thought of disease and we all know there are some that vaccinations dont touch.

There is a small gorgeous lake in the National Forests nearby with docks and a beach, no motorized boats allowed. Normally there is no one there as the camping is closed due to budget cuts. I have taken my dogs there for many years because they can run and swim off lead. Almost every single time I go there, someone has dumped a dog, most of the time pregnant. Of course when I am out there, I always have my own dogs so dont chance loading up a stray. There was a time that I would have and did back when I was active in rescue but I've learned my lesson. I have the parish animal control officer's number in my fast dial in my phone so I always call him immediately and he normally meets me there to get the stray. What really is sad is when I drive by the dog and it chases me with that worried look like, is my mom in there, please dont leave me, please, please.
Makes my blood boil. GRRRR!

@Leah, I work for cardiologists and I can attest that just because they have M.D. or PhD behind your name doesnt mean they have enough sense to get out of the rain.

I really hate this about the Lab/HoundX dog I spent so much time on because I know that ultimately she will end up a yard dog or 'accidentally' let out of the yard and go to animal control. I dont see them actually taking her there at this point but who knows. If I didnt already have my limit here, I would take her and do some S&R, agility, or dock dog, the dog is that versatile and with basic training already.

But then on the other hand, a young Aussie I had in for training is back home with its owner, someone with some dog and animal sense. She has done exactly what I have told her to do and the dog is advancing. This pup is on a working farm and will soon be a valuable asset let alone an excellent companion dog. This owner calls to brag and sends working photos all the time. Makes it all worth to me.

Anyway.... soapboxes, gotta get on 'em sometime.

Sue - I think you hit the nail on the head; a lot of dog owners just dont care or are too lazy. Some are just downright dumb. I tell folks all the time God knew what he was doing when he withheld language from dogs because if they could talk, well then.....its already evident that most dogs are smarter than their people, just think if they could talk!!

Lisa - and with horses, serious mishaps or injury can happen. I can attest to that myself.

Dutchringgirl wrote:

alspyce wrote: Went by his house about a month later and the poor dog was out back tied to a dog house.

This stuff makes me cry.

Wow, just reading all this made me think of the rants I could go on with.


I will start with a women who works with my mom who bought an Akita and then tied it to a vehicle in her back yard. The dog has had no interaction for the past 7 MONTHS other then them throwing food out to her every now and then. SO the owners decide to get a divorce and now the beautiful Akita, that once was the pride of Japan, is stuck, un socialized with no where to go! Seriously, Im trying to convince my mom she needs this dog and I would help her with its socialization, but Im afraid it might be too late. UGHHHHHHHH!!!! Annoyed!

2nd my moms neighbor is a ........well nevermind. They have a granddaughter that comes to see them all the time, she practically lives with them. So they buy this little girl a puppy, puppy gets 7 to 8 months old and she completely stops playing with it!!! The last one grew up to roam the streets and do nothing but breed horrible mange covered genes across town. So my sister feeling sorry for one of these puppies takes it in and guess what the pup has mange! So now my moms dogs are had to be treated, I have even been keeping special eye on Merlin and Chewie due to them being over there at one point or another. Months have past since and still nothing noticable, but freaking annoying! Who gets their kid a puppy, then once the puppy gets older completely abandons feeding it and lets it roam the streets, only to get your child another puppy when a cute free litter comes around. My mom has lived next to these people for 6 years and I kid you not they have a new puppy every 6 months with the old one being shund to roam the streets!!!

Finally, I hate when people think that because they have a pit they are hardcore gangsters....ok Im done

ooh! This topic comes in handy!!
Horrible sometimes... Judith, they always seem to know how to find you

I used to assist in dog training at my local dog-club, some people wouldn't have noticed if they went home with just a stuffed dog shaped toy... arg!
So, today I made a call... and told someone that they will not get the puppy they had reserved I felt real bad first, but I was SO sure this was not going to work...
I had not met them before, just phone calls and e-mail contact, they wanted to do schutzhund, yay!
Turns out, they have never done any dog training, just heard the word somewehere and wanted a dog to go with that. Also they brought their rescue mix (according to them Appenzeller x DS, I'm pretty convinced it is just some smaller mix, no DS in there). This dog was a friend to them, but sure as hell did not consider them their leader, she was in control at all times. They could not leave her in the car, she had to come in. I told them no, we have 4 week old pups in the house and their mom is not going to tolerate another female she does not know (I already had doubts when I had to explain this...). So I suggested we put her in my kennel for the time being. But...but... She is going in the kennel or the car, pick it yourself.
So the dog went in the kennel, she was fine, sniffin' around, peeing, lying on a dog bed, no problemo. But they were worried all the time. Then they rush in, step into my puppykennel without even hestitating for a second, grab the pup with green collar that I had mentioned on the phone could make it in Schutzhund, and hold it
So I want to start saying she is lucky Ivil allows almost anyone in, but before I get the chance, she asks me if she can tell me her preference? I tell her "yes you can, but I won't do anything with that, I decide who fits where. Silence.
I have other people there too who are really nice, own a dog-school etc. They look as overwhelmed as me
They continue talking, I'm confused. Ask them about dog sports "nope, never done it, green as grass"
They insist on letting their dog "meet" the pups. I have to explain again, Ivil will not allow this, and it will be a fight. But they can bring the dog up to the window where she can see them (I want to see the interaction) and they do. The dog is overweight, and is a bit insecure, completely ignores the owners, does not react to all the "no! sit! calm down!" bladibla.
At that point I was sure, have to follow your instinct...no good. Since I had other people over for the pups I was torn...decided to ring them up afterwards... Luckily they were not pissed of, maybe a bit, but they listened to what I had to say which was abig plus for them. Maybe I was wrong, but I doubt it, They were really not up to a DS male yet, even when the dogs I breed are not really the extreme type at all.
Jeez, I feel better already
Tommorow I will make some calls, see where the male will fit in. Somebody is going to be real happy with this guy

Good for you. that must be so hard to do, but you have to protect both your dog and the people. A bad match is a bad match.

My Sister in law now has 4 hunting type dogs... Jack russel mix, labrador, Red bone hound and a Walker/beagle mix. She is unable to walk or exercise them and they live in a small in town house with a small fenced yard.
Going to her house is an exercise in keeping my mouth SHUT. As the beagle mix bays constantly and barks at us and tries to bite (but she pets it when it is acting up, or shocks it with the collar depending on the moment). The red bone who is extremely food possessive either eats from your plate (don't correct him!) or sticks it's tongue in your mouth, The incontinent lab who has finally decided that it is safe to come out from under the bed, and the jack russell mix who at 12 years has finally decided not to bite her son....

And she wishes she could have more. Your little green pup would thank you if he knew what was going on! (I know, why don't you send him to me!!! )

Marjolein....I can't begin to tell you how much I respect your decision as a breeder. And, it goes both ways. If the prospective buyer isn't up to the pup, then you have to say, "sorry, no." And, if you don't have a pup that you believe really matches one of your buyer's needs, you also need to say, "sorry, not in this litter."

Glad you're already feeling better; a sure sign of a right decision!

grab the pup with green collar

that's the "not co-operating" one from the pic you like sooo much You might not find the "right" owner and you "have to" keep it yourself

Spass beiseite........I totally understand your decision. They shouldn't even have touched the puppy on their own.

whaha, I tried Johan "we could keep the one you like so much?"
Reaction, "hahaha, I told you you can keep one, but 3 is the max"

So yes I could keep him, but that would close my opportunity to buy a female I'm planning to buy for over a year now (waiting for the right pedigree ). So no, I will not keep him. Also, Dingo would not be thrilled with another male in the house. For now he would love it, but as he reaches maturity...ouch. Nope, i'll go for the female as planned. But if it wasn't for Johan telling me 3 is the max, I don't think there would be a max

So Marjolein, You're saying that green pup I like sooooo much needs a home????? (If only Lyric were a bit older)
Of course you made the right decision! Better in a proper home now than to come back to you in 8 months untrained and out of control. Good call!

Wow, thats ballsy, and stupid to just go right in and grab a pup!!! I also respect your decision as a breeder to place them where YOU see fit and to say no if its not right.