Dutch Shepherd Forum

what is the difference, if any, between the chain collar with the small links and the collar with the really big links?

The small ones are just choke chains and abhored by many (such as myself). Others use them. I'd rather use a prong than a choke chain, any day.

The larger linkec collara are called fur savers. I've never used one, so I can only assume the benefits are being gentler on the fur around the collar line.

oh, they do look cool though. Ive seen all of the negative about the chain collars. I usually use prongs too. I was looking at some pictures on here and saw a big chained collar and I was just wondering.

With choke chains, the smaller the link, the quicker the correction and the quicker the release. There is less drag. I don't love them, but I think they have a place in training with certain types of dogs. Also, a good trainer with a choke is not choking the dog. They are applying correction and releasing. However what most of us see are dogs choking at the end of the leash. I know some people think its OK to deal with handler aggression by hanging up a dog, or applying consistent correction until the behavior stops. A choke or flat collar is the only way to accomplish that without pain stimulating the dog. Trying to accomplish that with a prong (as I know many have) is completely inappropriate and counter productive. So it all comes down to what you are dealing with.

The big links are in fact called "fur savers." They don't tear up the coat in that area as much as a small link choke. Many sports require the dog to compete in a choke or fur saver, so for many of us, that is the everyday collar. My dogs wear flats or fursavers (or naked ) depending on the activity and time of their lives. The correction ability of them is low and there is little release after correction - so mostly they are a show collar with some "umph" if you really need it.

There are also many collars that fall in between if you go looking.

I have a real hard time with choke chains for a number of reasons. Personally, I'll never use one. I've never come across a training scenario thus far where the use of one could not be substituted for something else.

I guess it comes down to personal preference, but something to think about.

http://flyingpawsdogtraining.weebly.com ... hains.html

great guys, ok, here is a question. I am working with my neigbors dog, she is a small lab mix, about 8 months old and she is really pulling them around, now Its really them who is letting her pull, as we all know. I work with the dog and I can get her to listen to me. I teach them how to not pull but give the proper correction. the problem is their life is so stressed, ( i believe you make your own way but lets go on) The dog takes them where ever she wants to go. There are also sitters that need to take the dog out and the dog takes them for walks too. Personally, Im prong all the way. I love them but I know how to use them. They are foo foo people, if i told them to put a prong on they would think i am a killer

They talk to the dog in soft NO and use please. Of course the dog dosnt listen. The dog is in a nylon martingale collar.

Since the chains are dangerous and I know they would just hang on it what would be a good leash for a puller?

I would use a prong but there is no way they will.

Also the dog has no food or toy drive. I just use a good girl dance and a ton of praise.

Head collar or sensation harness. Power steering with no correction. The head collar requires some acclimation. Sensation harnesses are usually readily accepted and work on the dogs opposition reflex. The EZ walk (by Premier Pet Products) is available at most pet stores.

I got Ziva at about 14 months of age. She was 65 pounds already and SUPER pushy. I didn't want to put a prong on her because I want to teach her all of her competition obedience before correcting her. I put her on a head collar (wonder walker, to be exact) and she is doing awesome....and I have both of my rotator cuffs. LOL. I have a 160# 1 year old, intact male rottie I am currently working. I can't handle him without the head collar. I am a fan if you have to patience to condition them to it!!

I have a large link fur saver on Merlin, but I dont have to use it as a corrector often. Usually all he wears is the fur saver, but when we are outside and his training line is on him I use a flat collar as well because the fur saver might slip off. I bought the fur saver because he has such beautiful tuffs of fur around his neck and the flat collar lays the hair down. This way he still has on a collar, but the hair just pushes through the chains. When we go on walks I do use the fur saver, which can be used like a choke collar, but Merlin usually stays right beside me so I don't even use it in that way.

the Wonder Walker sounds perfect for them! They wanted to get a harness because they thought the Martingale collar was mean, so you can imagine why i dont mention prong.

They are wonderful people but really dont have the time for the dog, her recall is horrible, she comes but then looks at you like, "yeah, right" runs around you twice then comes. I told her thats not good and how to work on a proper recall, she looked at me with a blank look. ( little vent)

Good for you for helping your neighbours dog out. Too many people get dogs and end up in exactly this situation. It must pain you greatly to see all this, (just reading this made me cringe) especially knowing full well it doesn't need to be like this for the dog or the people.

Good luck with it all and the head type collar does sound like the best solution for them and the dog.

I saw this alot when I was training horses too, I do just cringe. This is a super sweet dog and I see she is getting out of hand. Im going over there in a few, our kids are best friends too so in that way its good because I see them all of the time. Its just they let the dog do all sorts of bad things its hard to train everything. But when the people are too nice and dont set any boundaries because they think thats mean, it makes it even harder. I know its the people letting the dog get away with every thing.

I now use the Gentle Leader for both dogs. For me, this works.

make sure they use a gentle leader correctly, if not you can really hurt a young dogs neck. I would prefer them going to "school" and learn some dog-behaviour and corrections instead of grabbing any tool... but hey, they probabely won't so a head collar would be the gentlest option on the dog, but I still think it is not fair to the dog But ending up in the pound isn't nice either...I get that

Dutchringgirl wrote: when the people are too nice and dont set any boundaries because they think thats mean, it makes it even harder. I know its the people letting the dog get away with every thing.

Do they let their kids get away with everything?

Dog just like kids need the boundries...maybe that point of view would help them see how they can help their dog (and their life with the dog) by having standards/boundries...unless they let their kids get away with everything too...and thats another forum!

Sugars Mom wrote:
Do they let their kids get away with everything?

yes the kids get away with everything , thats the problem, the dog is a good dog but getting worse because they let her get away with everything too, their live is chaotic so the dog is just one more piece to the chaos.

I was just over there, the dog is a love. I walked in the back and the dog came running up to me barking and I stood there, looked down and said, Quiet, sit, she looked at me with a sweet face and peed.

they wont go to school and learn how to use a lead they dong have time. I advised them against a dog because now is hectic for them but she had already promised the kids a dog.

She looked at the Wonder Walker and liked it. I told her a friend has one for her big rottie and loves it.

I found the best way to stop the dogs from pulling on the leash is to move a traditional style collar higer on the neck instead of at the base. I still keep the collar loose enough to rest at the base but when training, I would move it up.
I don't like choke collars either but I use them on occasion when walking Diesel in high traffic areas, because he startles easy and has pulled out of a traditional style collar in the past. He is trained to heel on the leash so it is always loose, I guess its more for my peace of mind.

Dutchringgirl wrote:

Sugars Mom wrote: She looked at the Wonder Walker and liked it. I told her a friend has one for her big rottie and loves it.

Tow things though - Premier doesn't make it any more so you have to get them off of Ebay or some other source. Second, they are slip-able, so during the transition period you need to have a second leash on a real collar. I have gotten very good at keeping the dog in the collar. But if they protest, go into alligator rolls and paw at their face, it can and will come off. You need a back up system.

Okay, thanks for that info Christie. Ill let her know.