Dutch Shepherd Forum

Last week when I took Thalie to the vet for the question of a UTI, she wanted to take blood just to check her kidneys since the UTI came back negative. The vet said there are some very very minor signs of change that can be helped through diet. SHe knows I feed raw and suggested to lower her protein and raise her carbs. Less meat and more fruits and veggies. I have been keeping her on the Apple Cider V and cranberry juice, vit C, and that has helped with her leaking.

Any other suggestions to make sure she is getting everything she needs with a raw diet? For the newer people, Thalie is 10.

Thanks All.

I researched the crap out of raw and kidney issues like 8-10 years ago with my old GSD mix, Honey. But I can't remember a single specific.

A few generalizations that I remember, its quality of protein that matters over quantity. And raw fed dogs often have a higher level PCV (Packed cell volume, or red blood cell count) than kibble fed dogs. That can be construed as an issue by an unknowning vet but is just the normal for raw fed dogs.

I would google it I know some of the sites can get very technical and specific and would give you a lot of info.

will do Thanks! The vet said it wasnt anything to be concerned about. My vets are really cool with the raw diet stuff. I dont think they know a lot but are cool with it.

I have been feeding alot of pork, the chicken prices are sky high and I dont have room to get bulk from some of the raw people I know.

so glad her kidneys are ok!!

Look at some of the holistic sites for products that are used in old age, or spay related incontinence. It could be just the normal weakening of the muscles and they need tightening/toning. (Happens to us too in old age---can't say I'm looking forward to that!)
I think the cranberry pills may be better than the juice, which could have added sugars, etc.

I'm not an expert when it comes to dog nutrition. However I finally found a good combination that works for my GSD. I give him raw food mixed with dehydrated fruit and vegetables from Honest Kitchen.

Frenchie85 wrote:I'm not an expert when it comes to dog nutrition. However I finally found a good combination that works for my GSD. I give him raw food mixed with dehydrated fruit and vegetables from Honest Kitchen.

ill look into the pills, i wasnt keen on the juice but its a quick start.

i second the idea of no juice - the sugar actually is converted to fat in the blood stream. pills offer much more of the ingredients than you could ever achieve with the juice, so juice has more downside than up.

re other suggestions, i recommend 2 tablespoons of Platinum Performance CJ (complete joint) for a broad array of vitamins, trace minerals, amino acids, phytonutrients, and other special ingredients for skin, coat and joints all in a fiber base of ground flax. it's a company that mostly serves olympic athletes and racehorses that i discovered over 10 years ago reading vet school journals that recommended the supplements. if you do it, go for the 3lb size for economy of scale/less shipping. you'll use it fast enough.

finally, this is something you already know, but when i started my dog on Cosequin DS when he was 10yo, in less than 2 weeks the occasional trip or limp that he was developing disappeared, never to appear again. i was so surprised that the action of that 1 pill was so rapid and so obvious. i already had him on other formulations when his stiffness manifested. i guess the cosequin must be very bio-available to dogs because the stated ingredients were no different from what he had been getting, but the change to that brand had a dramatic affect.

I feed a combination of raw/high-quality kibble in my home. (Kibble wayyyyy easier to work with when traveling or staying over somewhere,) and it sounds like you're doing all the right things in researching and tweaking diet and working with your vet.

Just one other thought, if diet alone isn't seeming to help with the leaking issue you mentioned, my old GSD had that (again, vet said pretty common in older spayed females,) and it would mostly happen when she was real relaxed or sleeping. She would then be visibly upset and embarrased by it, (she was very fastidious about her housebreaking and even helped housebreak my other two dogs! It was a "thing" for her!) So I was especially concerned about her emotional health.

My vet put her on a prescription of Sudaphed, of all things, and it worked beautifully. Mind you, this was over ten years ago, (she passed on 5 years ago at 13,) when you could buy Sudaphed over the counter. Then, as it started becoming a controlled substance, my vet wrote us a scrip. for it at our pharmacy. (We could also buy it from the vet directly, but he said it was more affordable for me if I went through a pharmacy and just bought the people version. (Love my vet, most nowadays wouldn't tell you that option!)

If diet alone is solving the issue, then awesome! No need to give meds unnecessarily! But if there's still some leakage issue, you can talk to your vet about potential med. options. I know the sudaphed worked like a charm for Cory and she was a happy girl.

johninny wrote: finally, this is something you already know, but when i started my dog on Cosequin DS when he was 10yo, in less than 2 weeks the occasional trip or limp that he was developing disappeared, never to appear again. i was so surprised that the action of that 1 pill was so rapid and so obvious. i already had him on other formulations when his stiffness manifested. i guess the cosequin must be very bio-available to dogs because the stated ingredients were no different from what he had been getting, but the change to that brand had a dramatic affect.

Yes your hunch is correct, my vet talked to me about Consequin DS when we were discussing glucosamine for my Corso's joints as a preventative. He cited a couple studies (for me in one ear out the other if I don't write stuff like that down) that showed that was the only bio available form that the dogs actually gained visible benefit from.

Don't have any specific advice for Thalie's diet but came across this that might be of some help:
http://www.dogaware.com/health/liver.html

Since I posted, I have them on Honest kitchen plus raw. I have Thalie on meds from the vet and the leaking stopped. I had tried all sorts of natural ways to stop it but nothing worked, the vet meds worked in one day. They love the Honest Kitchen ! so do I, its super easy.

Choochi wrote: Yes your hunch is correct, my vet talked to me about Consequin DS when we were discussing glucosamine for my Corso's joints as a preventative. He cited a couple studies (for me in one ear out the other if I don't write stuff like that down) that showed that was the only bio available form that the dogs actually gained visible benefit from.

I attended the veterinary seminar where Cosequin presented that data to the world. It showed that both their veterinary and human formulas (I don't know if they are available in the US) were equally bio-available for dogs - AND that the human formula was in the top 3 of bio-availability and consistency of product. Included in that top three was Spring Valley distributed by Walmart. So I thought "If dog cosequine equals human cosequine, AND human cosequine equals Spring Valley, wouldn't Dog Cosequine equal Spring Valley?" The rep said "Ummmm, well, yeah." So I switched to SV and it works great with my kids!!

Dutchringgirl wrote:Since I posted, I have them on Honest kitchen plus raw. I have Thalie on meds from the vet and the leaking stopped. I had tried all sorts of natural ways to stop it but nothing worked, the vet meds worked in one day. They love the Honest Kitchen ! so do I, its super easy.

Saves lots of time, and a good product when you add the raw meat. Somehow I thought you were already using it before??
I agree with Christie on the protien. Don't forget to rotate! The fish is the only one I don't use because I give fish as a meat meal, and I use the fish formula of Orijen as training treats---you can buy the sample size bags of that at our feed store.
I use a liquid vitamine suppliment a few times a week, just to feel better about covering all the bases. (K-9 Liquid Health Fidonutrients, or Nutripetrin---depending on who has a better deal when I'm ordering---they are the exact same formula.)

The original post was from July, so I have been feeding raw for quite a while now. The HK is a time saver. Ill get the Prefference with no protein and I do rotate the meats. Ill get the Hk with protein for when I dont have any time or I run out of raw meat. I also ad coconut oil to their food,their coats are super soft. Thalie always had a shine but her fur was always a bit coarse, now it is like silk.

Christie M wrote:

Choochi wrote: Yes your hunch is correct, my vet talked to me about Consequin DS when we were discussing glucosamine for my Corso's joints as a preventative. He cited a couple studies (for me in one ear out the other if I don't write stuff like that down) that showed that was the only bio available form that the dogs actually gained visible benefit from.

I attended the veterinary seminar where Cosequin presented that data to the world. It showed that both their veterinary and human formulas (I don't know if they are available in the US) were equally bio-available for dogs - AND that the human formula was in the top 3 of bio-availability and consistency of product. Included in that top three was Spring Valley distributed by Walmart. So I thought "If dog cosequine equals human cosequine, AND human cosequine equals Spring Valley, wouldn't Dog Cosequine equal Spring Valley?" The rep said "Ummmm, well, yeah." So I switched to SV and it works great with my kids!!

Ha! Good to know!

I use the HK veggie mix too, it's so easy. I used to feed their full food but it's so damn expensive, I can get raw much cheaper and I do like feeding the raw better then dehydrated plus its way more fun to watch them tear apart a chicken then slop up much :p