Dutch Shepherd Forum

We recently rescued a DS/GSD mix (Havok) and he had previously killed cats that wandered into his kennel. He was held in a 10x8 run and was not fed regularly. I'm not entirely convinced the cat killing wasn't done out of starvation and/or boredom. We have a cat in our house that is used to our other 2 dogs. It has been 2 weeks and the cat is still living behind the couch. He will occasionally come out when he is in the house but as soon as the dog shows interest in him he runs to hide again. Our cat has never been afraid of dogs prior to Havok. The dog has shown no overt aggression at most he barks at him. Whenever I catch him fixating on the cat I call him to me to snap him out of it. Is there anything we can do to facilitate them coming to terms, will it just take more time, or is this an "unfix-able" problem? TIA.

First, I'd keep him on a dragline in the house (or outside, for that matter), until you are absolutely 100% sure of him. He's a fairly recent addition, right? Err on the side of caution here.

Second, absolutely protect your cat from him. He should never be able to get to the cat, or even bark at the cat. Preventing unwated behavior is better than correcting it, if possible...so pay close attention to him if the cat's anywhere near and redirect him before he focuses on the cat.

Make sure he learns a very solid "leave it," and that's the rule about the cat...no grey here, all black and white, the cat is off limits.

If you keep this up for a long time, they may be fine together, in the sense of being able to be in each other's presence without messing with each other. I wouldn't expect them to cuddle and sleep together, but perhaps all could rest on the bed with you without incident. Way on down the line .

I brought a 16 week old kitty into the life of my GSD, when she was about 9 years old, and no dog ever had a stronger prey drive. She learned and eventually was safe around the cat, even cat #2 when it came home with me.

I raised my DS pup to be able to coexist with my two cats, and they all do fine together. She's still not allowed to pester the cats (she'd love to play with them, but they're not interested). When I take my daily nap, I generally have two cats lying somewhere on me with my DS next to me, all of us on the bed together, no problemo.

Also, make sure your cat has places to escape to.

Thankfully Havok came knowing "leave it" so that part has been easy. We have been doing everything suggested. Moose (the cat) also has a room with his food and litter box only accessible by cat door so he always has a place to go, although he prefers behind the couch. I don't allow the dog access to the cat unless I am holding the cat or directly in between them (ie, the cat is on the washer and I have placed myself between him and the dog). I definitely don't want an incident.

I feel like this is more of a curiosity on the dog's part (never having been in the presence of a cat) than anything else. It was suggested that I kennel the dog and play with the cat in front of him but I can't do that because of his prior life. We kenneled him the first day and he went crazy and pried the door inwards. It has only been 2.5 weeks though so I've got my fingers crossed. The first week the cat wouldn't show his face until the dogs were in bed for the night. Now he will creep around if they are laying around not paying attention. Havok is not altered yet. I am hoping once we get that done it may help a little as well. Our other dogs have never had an issue around the cat and are protective of him. Which I think helps a little as well.

The thing with these dogs is the high prey drive. A lot of cats (and small dogs) take off when they see a dog and that can lead to chasing and possibly killing. A good dog savvy cat will be helpful as well as your constant monitoring and a dragline. Leih had some great advice in her post.

Odin loves to chase cats and there are certain ally cats he's chased off our property from time to time that he would probably kill or at least bite if given the chance. It's his job here to chase them though, just like any other pest, as my husband's very badly allergic and I don't like cats pooping in my garden so it's not discouraged. Odin lived with a cat for 8 months before we got him though, and supposedly they got along fine. They weren't friends, but tolerated living together.

Our cat has never demonstrated fear of a dog before Havok. He came into our house with a GSD and has been around our neighbors' dogs as well and has never backed down. He's always went nose-to-nose and if they got too close he smacked them. That's why I don't understand why he exhibits so much caution around Havok. We introduced him exactly the same as we always have. I've tried to put the cat in a more dominant position but that's difficult when he refuses to come out of hiding. I've even tried showing possession of the cat (silly I know, but my Border Collie kept eating my flowers and when I would catch her near them I would tell her they were mine in a strong voice and stand over her until she submitted...not a plant lost since). I will try the line and see if that helps, it would probably be more effective if I could actually get the cat to come out of hiding. I just hope it works out because we would really like to be able to keep him because he has been through so much but I can't at the expense of my cat. Thank you all so much for the help.

AFronhei wrote: He's always went nose-to-nose and if they got too close he smacked them. That's why I don't understand why he exhibits so much caution around Havok.

The cat is very smart and knows the "smack" wouldn't work to intimidate him. She might sense that he already has killed some kitties and that he means business and is not to be messed with.

That's kind of what I figured as well. Recently when the dog gets close Moose does smack him (although he is declawed) and has even bit his nose to the point it bled. Our side table has a shelf under it just big enough for Havok to set his head in to look at the cat, if he puts it too far through to the other side Moose doesn't like it. Havok seemed to show a little less interest in sticking his nose near the cat afterwards.

We did have a slight break-through this morning. We left the bedroom and I didn't realize Moose was right outside the door on the floor but he stayed where he was as opposed to running. Havok walked over and smelled him. Moose pawed him a few times and Havok left on his own before I could even call him away. I think the situation would resolve itself much more quickly if the bloody cat would just come out into the open and stay there. lol.

Does anyone think neutering might help the situation? (Havok, Moose is already fixed) As far as prey drive goes? Or is it just as high regardless of "intactness"?

Neutering has zero to do with prey drive...

So an update:

The cat is provoking the dog. In the mornings when when we leave the bedroom the cat is lounging about wherever. Havok walks over and sniffs him. Moose could care less. When I feed Moose, Havok can be standing in the door and Moose will come calmly walking past him to jump up on the dryer to get his food not a care in the world. Sometimes though, I want to strangle him. He will get behind the couch and and reach out to paw at the dog. Or, if Havok is ignoring him, he will meow until he comes then he will run to the other side of the couch and back and forth until Havok gets so excited he knocks something over and gets trouble (since it is the cat provocation that leads to it I only make Havok go lay down). Even worse, if Havok is in the living room the cat will stick his head out the cat door and meow, which gets Havok into the hallway...then he will go back in the door and paw at the inside of the door where Havok can see him but not get to him. I have came to the conclusion I have a sadistic cat. Sometimes he will even let Havok sniff him and then he will slap him for no reason and run away. Havok then snaps his teeth together at him. (I'm not sure what it is--not a true attempt to bite because he stops short of actually grabbing the cat)

So...I now know they can safely coexist without conflict the bloody cat just won't allow it. Poor Havok.

leih merigian wrote:Neutering has zero to do with prey drive...

Thanks! I didn't think it would contain it, but it was suggested to me so I figured I would ask.

A message from Marco to Havoc "GET RID OF THAT USELESS CAT"

Schlussdibusti wrote:A message from Marco to Havoc "GET RID OF THAT USELESS CAT"

Havok knows he would be on my naughty list if he did that. lol. He's so sensitive he can't even stand for me to tell him "No" so he would never survive eating the cat.

I've started making them eat together in the same room. It was suggested by a friend because when animals eat together it makes the assumption of acceptance. Soooo...we'll see how that works out.

Seriously, you need to put a stop to this. It is unacceptablefair that the cat is allowed, i.e. without being punished, to taunt the dog. And if the dog respond to it, the dog is in trouble.

The cat knows it's getting away with it and takes advantage of it. You need to handle this asap.

I don't punish the dog when the cat is provoking him any longer, because you're right it isn't fair to him. I just call him away and talk to him or get him to fetch his ball to distract him. I've also started forcing the cat to sit in the same room as the dog (while I keep him on lead to control the sniffing) to try and a) get the dog used to seeing him more and b) get the cat to come to terms with the dog staying. I know I have a cat problem and not a dog problem now I just haven't figured out how to handle the bloody cat. I'm trying several different methods and I promise I have not made light of the situation. It stresses me just as much as it does the dog. If I knew of an effective way to punish the cat I would do so because he definitely needs it. Right now I'm trying to work on getting Havok to ignore the cat because I know if I can accomplish that then cat will not see any fun in harassing him. I know they can peacefully coexist because I've seen it but its only on the cat's terms. If anyone has any advice or can think of something I haven't tried please let me know.

Progress is slowly being made. Havok's nipping has turned into mouthing. He "nibbled" on the cats tail the other day while I loved on the cat to distract him. He's a very mouthy dog and does the same with the other dogs so I feel like it's his way of familiarizing himself with the cat (if I'm wrong please correct me). He isn't biting down hard, mostly just putting parts of the cat in his mouth and the letting go. I feel that now that the cat knows he will not be bitten hard he is beginning to accept it. He allows the other dogs to "chew" on him to the point he is covered in slobber. He now spends less time behind the couch and more time sitting out (still close to hiding) but will allow Havok to approach him and smell him out before he turns to hide.

AFronhei wrote:He isn't biting down hard, mostly just putting parts of the cat in his mouth and the letting go.

Wow, that is one tolerant cat!!

AFronhei wrote: He isn't biting down hard, mostly just putting parts of the cat in his mouth and the letting go.

That sounds sooooo funny, but that is what Sadie does. When Sadie was a pup she was super oral. She always nibbled and if I was scratching her belly she would just put her mouth around my arm like she was holding it. It was never anything mean. She has grown out of it now.

My dog just has a huge prey drive,no off switch whatsoever.

Cat-catch-kill. Or small dogs. mouses. rabbits. birds...

cat running hiding isnt truly helping the situation. Calm cats who wont take off, dont get the same state behind.

Like U have been told, isolate them from eachother when ur not there to watch. I know few cases where dog killed a cat even seem to leave it peace when people at home...