Dutch Shepherd Forum

Hello Dutch Shepherd Lovers!

For 8 months now I've been fostering a dog who I am now convinced is a Dutch Shepherd mix. It was first suggested to me that she's a Dutch Shepherd mix because of her learning style. Since then every picture I see of a Dutch Shepherd reminds me of her one way or the other. Breed and temperament descriptions seem to describe her perfectly (with the exception of her floppy ears). I've only been able to read a few posts so far but I could relate to every single one! I've fostered 9 dogs in the past and this time I wanted to foster/help a more challenging dog. Boy did I get what I wished for!!!!! Luckily there was an organization called the Foster Dog Alliance (Rockville, MD) that gave me clicker training and positive reinforcement training...changed our lives! To all the new DS owners out there or any DS owner dealing with a behavioral problems all I can say is it is all worth it! This is such a fabulous breed like no other!! To experienced Dutch Shepherd owners I'd like to say how 'bout a 2nd one!!!

In addition to wanting to get Adoptable-Debbie-Dog the home she deserves, I am also on this site to learn more from a DS's point of view regarding their contextual learning, management of self, and stress. Quite often when she's in a new situation it's like she forgets all her manners. Luckily a few cues will eventually get her back on track as will directing her away from big distractions.

It's almost like Adoptable-Debbie-Dog is born to jump! When she sees another dog close up she'll spring up several feet off the ground almost always earning comments from bystanders such as "Wow! That is impressive!" This isn't so helpful at adoption events and I use cues such as "turn", "let's go", or "with me" to move her away from the distractions but I'd love to learn how to let her develop some of her natural abilities, especially jumping....any suggestions? (She's now 1 1/12 years old - should she wait on jumping until she is 2 and is more skeletally mature?)

I could write all day about the fun adventures and behavioral accomplishments we've had (10 plus!!) but for now I'll close with 2 things that have been a huge help to both us and Debbie

1) filled frozen Kongs - She does have some separation anxiety but we find if we leave her with a frozen filled kong the licking is soothing to her and keeps her focused on something enjoyable.

2) Doggie zen - Boy could she barge in and out of situations - and so much energy! Through clicker training (click at the exact moment of a desired behavior and then treat a second later) she incrementally learned to: put her paw on a mat...put all four paws on a mat...lay down...shift her weight onto a hip (teaching her to relax even further)....stay laying down while a person slowly approached. Debbie seems to enjoy life so much more now (as do all those people that she previously pounced on with her overzealous greetings!)

Can't wait to read more on this site! And I hope I succeed in getting Adoptable-Debbie-Dog into a great home.

All the best with finding a home for her.

From the side I see lab...maybe a DS/Lab mix?

Congrats! I'm no expert at all but yeah looks a little like lab/DS mix. I just noticed you were rather close in locale, I am in Harpers Ferry but often find myself in the gaithersburg/germantown area. Great work you do though, thank you.

As for jumping, 18 months is ok for it IMO. Most agility venues have 18 months as the minimum for competition. I wouldn't overdo it. Keep her on grass, maybe jump her at half height and just monitor for signs of pain or discomfort. Keep it simple until she builds up to it, just like marathon training. Does she like water? I would think dockdiving would be a great outlet for her. It involves jumping, and the water is low impact for the landing. If she is a lab/DS mix, you have great genetics there as well.

For the behavioral aspect, you mentioned that it's like she forgets all of her manners. I'm assuming she does great in an empty indoor room with little distractions? The main problem would be going from that to immediately a high stim environment where the dog is suddenly over threshold and distracted and then she starts to "forget" everything. If she has the basic foundations down, than she has the knowledge to perform what you want, but just doesn't have the correct exposure to do it in every environment.

Basically, you just need to gradually go from controlled to limited distractions to limited unpredictable distractions and onward into public spaces. I would treat this dog like any dog preparing for obedience competition. I know it can be frustrating with getting her exposure at adoption events, but those are likely too much for her experience level at this time.

This is the part of dog training where I don't really like the thoughts of "socialization." So many people are quick to say take your dog anywhere and everywhere and expose them to everything, but it can also lead to conflicts if the dog isn't ready and way too much overstimulation. It can lead to a lot of learned behaviors that aren't very favorable, like leash reactivity. Even if she is just wanting to "play" or "visit" with another dog, adding in the frustration of leash confinement can turn it into something worse as time goes on. I would focus on created social environments where you know the people and dogs and you can remove or add others based on her reaction and then go from there.

Susan Garrett's Crate Games would be a great thing to work on with her.

Hi Sugars Mom!

You have a keen eye! My shelter paperwork does say lab/shepherd mix. Thanks for your good wishes! I seem to have fallen into the "Black Dog Overlooked" syndrome and it's nice to know people in BC are cheering me on!

My foster mom has learned so much about Dutch Shepherds from this site! For example, I recently learned how to jog next to a bicycle (she read this is something Dutch Shepherds are good at and decided to give it a try). I'm doing great! I seem to thrive given a job to do...guess that's part of my Dutch-Shepherd-ness.

Also, I've learned so much (yeah! I've had 10+ behavioral improvements). If you'd like to follow my blog:
Debbie Tails - The Inside Scoop on a Foster Dog Looking for a Forever Home, it's
http://adoptabledebbiedog.blogspot.com/

Please send your DS a big dog greeting for me!

Adoptable-Debbie-Dog


Re: Jumpy Greetings from AdoptableDebbieDog in Gaithersburg,

Postby Sugars Mom » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:44 am
All the best with finding a home for her.

From the side I see lab...maybe a DS/Lab mix?

Hi Tomoe!

I'm curious to hear about your DS experience...got any pictures?

Harpers Ferry sounds like a perfect outing for Debbie. Unfortunately Debbie got adopted but then got returned I worked with these people for several months...answering all their questions....dealing with their needs...waiting on their schedule (until their kids ended the school year) and then they only gave Debbie 3 days They were totally clueless that Debbie's behavior was caused because she was totally stressed out with the transition. Her basic obedience is great as is her desire to learn (I love to watch her face!) but right now I'm switching the focus of her training to be things that she'll enjoy....things that will perhaps slightly stress her out but that will benefit her in her level of comfort with different people/places/things. So we're "real life-ing it" I think the more touristy part of Harper's Ferry would be good because lots of fun new sights/sounds/smells and room to move around, yet I don't think of a lot of dogs there (dog reactivity is a separate issue we're working on).

If you've heard about Sugarloaf Mountain in Maryland that's where we are headed for hiking today! So nice having a foster dog right now to enjoy life with!

Karen

Stephanie, Odin, and Elli!

Loved your message! Thanks for taking time to send.

I liked your idea regarding water/jumping/grass. Debbie has been having fun in our back yard jumping for the garden hose (I found a nice attachment). She absolutely loves it.

You're right on in regards to over stimulation and thresholds. I've learned so much about these things. One thing I've recently learned is the phrase "Sudden Environmental Change". Also, I now know a lot of the behavioral issues I was dealing with were a result of over arousal. Either in that moment (e.g. a person walking in the door) or earlier in the day. For example one night she guarded a comfort object..hadn't seen that behavior since her first month with us. I chalked it up to stresses she had had during the day (at an adoption event) and vowed to minimize such stresses.

I'm going to use your phrase

Basically, you just need to gradually go from controlled to limited distractions to limited unpredictable distractions and onward into public spaces

when talking with prospective adopters. While I went over such concepts with tedium to her one adopter, it seems that what she visually saw, i.e. Debbie walking beautifully loose leash in my neighborhood, totally overtook my words and written notes on the need for transition. The lady just couldn't understand why Debbie went bonkers walking in her neighborhood with tons of dogs, new people,and distractions and how later in the day Debbie was more reserved that her usually belly rub loving self. She returned her to the shelter after 3 days. What a disaster but at least Debbie was spared from remaining in such an environment. Your words are nice and concise and I can give specific examples.

The great news is that things are now a lot more automatic with Debbie. Especially while I'm in the kitchen and with greeting people she is not needing constant reminders. And with her Foster Dog Alliance training classes she's no longer jumping on the door before we enter and her entrances are much smoother. Essentially what you said was the solution...not exposing/socializing her with everything but with what was more in her range. And keeping it short at first. I've learned that a light jog with her in new environments can better help her assimilate and be less hyper/frantic.

Susan Garrett's Crate Games would be a great thing to work on with her.

What a great recommendation. Thanks! This sounds ideal for her. When I first got her crate training was one of the best things for her. It helped with housebreaking, her being much calmer when we came home (for a long time she was out of control with greetings), but more importantly it helped teach her a sense of calm because her crate greatly reduces stimulus. Another reason I like your "Crate Games" idea is that it (positively) involves the crate! And that's something I can share with the Foster Office. I was beyond frustration with the Humane Society I foster through. In a meeting with a prospective adopter I was saying how I felt the crate would help Debbie's transition and the Humane Society adoption counselor said "I'm against all usage for a crate". What?! This was a woman who touted 45 years of experience and the other staff just listened to what she said. I decided I had to take a stand. I've worked hard to show the foster office that just because a few "bad" people misuse the crate does not warrant banning usage. I can think of lots of other foster dogs that could benefit from Susan Garret's Crate Games so I might just pick up 2 copies!

Thanks again for such great input!

Karen