Dutch Shepherd Forum

a member of the forum, Jess [ ''Tappy4me''], has just suddenly lost her beloved puppy Maiya to what may have been deliberate rat poisoning by a neighbor. i post this because i thought some might miss this fact as it is posted to an old photo thread on Maiya --- and also because i wondered if anyone has advice [experience ] for what if anything can be done to effectively seek justice for Maiya and, importantly, to protect Jess' other dog[or any future dogs] from such an horrific predator.

That's absolutely awful and I can't imagine what Jess and her family are going through right now.

I'll play devil's advocate for a second here, just to mention it. Be absolutely sure that it was an intentional poisoning and that this kid did it before throwing out accusations to friends/family/other neighbors. Especially being new to the area, accusations alone can ruin a kid if they were innocent. I don't know your neighbors at all, so I may be totally off here, but staring into someone's yard might be completely innocent. Kids are emotional and act weird all the time. Maybe his girlfriend just dumped him. I always stare into yards with dogs because they fascinate me.

Anti-freeze, specific plants including castor beans come to mind as possible poisons that could mimic a rat poisoning reaction. I had an elementary school principal that was almost poisoned to death by her husband because he ground up castor beans in her food. All evidence showed a poison, but the doctors were stumped to find the cause until a search warrant was done.

Now, assuming it was done intentionally...

My first thought would be to pay for an autopsy and get the vet to confirm in writing with test results what the poison was and collect itemized bills for the treatments. It's probably really difficult to keep a level head through all of this, I can only imagine how I'd feel in this situation, but if she wants any justice against what happened, a paper trail is the best form of evidence alone with verification from a licensed vet. Check your yard thoroughly for any evidence, take pictures, date them, have the police update their files with anything you find.

As a groomer, I've had cases where a vet has "suggested" that shampoo has caused an irritation with a dog or that a severely matted dog was clipper burned solely due to neglect from a careless grooming (forget that the dog had 6" thick pelts and was caked in it's own urine and feces). None of those cases held up and lawyers won't even take them because it's just hearsay. With factual evidence and receipts, it makes a much better case.

Also, remember that dogs are considered property in most places. There's not a whole lot a lawyer can do to get compensation for pain and suffering and what the dog really means to you, but if you want the most money possible, be sure to get records of any training, recent vaccinations, spay/neuters that you've done, etc so that the replacement value to get an equal dog to the same level Maiya was will be the highest possible. It's not about getting money out of this, but stopping that kid from ever doing it again to your other dog or anyone else's. Hopefully you can get some animal cruelty charges slapped on there as well.

Does that new neighbor rent? If there's actual evidence that the kid did it, their landlord might be someone to go to about this. Most rental contracts have in there that the residents must be respectful of neighbors and not cause disturbances. This may be a way for you to get rid of the neighbor and stay rent free.

Good Luck to Jess and her family with getting to the bottom of everything and know that you're in all of our thoughts and prayers right now.

We don't know anything for sure. Just that the vet told us that her symptoms and fast decline all point most closely to rat poison. Antifreeze doesn't cause teh same symptoms, and causes kidney failure, not liver. Maiya's bloodwork, symptoms, and rapid decline all fit rat poison almost to a T. Mushrooms are a possibility, but the vet said she very highly doubted they would be teh cause. Maiya only had 2 symptoms of mushroom poisoning...and we don't even have any mushrooms in our yard. My husband had just mowed, and we check for mushrooms constantly as we know they can be toxic. We also have no toxic plants anywhere in the yard. My husbands family lived here for 21 years prior to us living here, and they made sure nothing was in the yard to keep all of their dogs safe. We've only lived here for 6 months.

There is no evidence, other than what Maiya's results (and the vet's say so) that would allow the officers to even pursue an investigation. It is most likely just being filed as a suspicious death...and will be on file in case it happens again. However much we wish justice could be found...there's just no proof, or motive.
Everything just doesn't add up to anything but a poisoning...But, we can't ruin someone's reputation on a gut feeling. We wish we had set up a game camera on that side of the yard like we had planned to...and we may have had our proof...but as always, hind sight is 20-20. Nothing changes the fact that she is gone...We are absolutely devastated and angry that we can't do anything to justify her death.

We will probably be posting flyers around for any info, more for our sanity and to warn any other neighbors in the area than anything...but likelihood of finding the culprit is slim to none.
We are just thankful that both puppies didn't get into it, whatever it may have been. Maiya was always a hog over food, so she gulped whatever it was all up before he could get it.

Our 8 month old pup, Flint, will be walked on a leash only for awhile to keep him safe.

Thank you very much for your thoughts and prayers.

This is such a sad and terrible story. A keyboard is incapable of conveying the feelings I have right now. There's some great advice above about documenting everything you can. The police will not do any investigation or evidence gathering in a case like this--there's just too much other stuff for them to deal with.

As for the suspected kid, there are a couple of approaches. You could try to talk to the parents if they seem like reasonable people, not in an accusatory manner, just as a "hey, we're contacting everyone in the neighborhood, to warn and ask if you've seen anything." Chances are, if he's guilty this is not his first episode. It would be a REALLY delicate conversation, though. The parents, even if reasonable, might get extremely defensive or aggressive if they perceive their child is in danger. There's only a very slight chance they would fess up that their kid is prone to this kind of thing. It's quite possible his behavior is driven by abuse he is receiving from them. This conversation would also likely alert the kid to the suspicions and drive his aberrant behavior underground temporarily. My other thought is the surveillance camera like you mentioned. If he has designs on getting your other dog, you might catch him in the act. Of course, if you're not letting the dog out anymore, or he knows you're suspicious of him, he may move on to other targets. That's where the warnings to other pet owners in the area might save lives.

As bad as all this is, my greater fear is about the one who did it (assuming it was intentional). There's lots of evidence that individuals (especially kids) who abuse animals will eventually turn their abuse towards other people, sometimes in very horrific ways. At the very least, they're likely to continue the existing behaviors. With all the despair you're feeling and the long odds of success, I hold a sliver hope that this tragedy can be turned into something positive. IF it was that kid, and IF you can somehow prove it, then MAYBE you can set a series of events in motion to turn him around. To see him express heartfelt remorse and even make an effort at restitution (I'm thinking something like becoming an advocate for humane animal treatment)... THAT would be a fitting tribute to Maiya's life. I know that whole scenario is unlikely, but I'm desperately grasping for a ray of sunshine in this darkness.

I hope our collective support will somehow give you strength through this tough time.

anyone interested in helping restore a semblance of sanity to Jess' family, could you take a look at the rescue thread where we would like to put together a relay to transport a possibly imminent pup adoption up routes 72 - 24 - 75 - 40 -81 from NE Alabama though TN and into VA, in TN going through towns like Cleveland, Farragut, Knoxville and in VA through Wytheville and Roanoke, either of which could be the last stop I think. or out of AL into NC is an option if there are people in NC who are more available.

Oh dear lord how horrible !!!!!!!!!!!! I saw this after the transport thread, so you can disregard the question over there. I am so sorry and my heart goes out to you. I know how you feel as my parents lost their dog to poison too, it happens so fast and just devastated us.

I hope the adoption and transport works out for you !

Words are so inadequate to express how horribly shocked and horrified I am on your behalf and the profound sorrow at such a senseless loss.

Words are so inadequate to express how horribly shocked and horrified I am on your behalf and the profound sorrow at such a senseless loss.

So sorry for your loss. It makes me sick to read this. it makes it much worse to think a person might have done this. you sound more composed then i would be. aWe lost a sheltie 20 years ago. The symptoms were similar to cyanide poison. The vet thought she ingested some sago palm. I checked with Texas Poison control and they confirmed sago palm and many other plants are highly toxic. We removed all sago palm from our yard as our kids were babies at that time.

I know I'm new to this forum but my deepest sympathy goes out to you & your family. I've owned dogs all my life & know how much a part of the family they are. Usually capable of more humanity than most humans, I can feel for your loss. Time will help and the good memories you had with her will last.

Not that it really helps; but if an individual did this, I would imagine, they will eventually be found out. This kind of depravity usually escalates. Moving away may not be such a bad idea if the person is in the area & not known. Again my remark is only made if it is determined to be a deliberate poisoning.

We have nothing to prove it was deliberate. Just know that there is nothing on the property here that could have caused it.

Thanks you guys so much for keeping us in you're thoughts. It means a lot. We are still very tearful when we talk about her but we have many good memories of her that we can laugh about.

Having Rufus around really is helping too. He has so many similarities to her that it keeps us laughing.

You had mentioned installing a trap camera, is that still in the works? I don't know the dimensions of your yard, but perhaps you can set up an inner perimeter that is away from general view.

We have a game cam but we haven't figured out how to set it up so they can't see it. It's kind of bulky and doesn't do distance pictures well.

Our yard is an acre lot that is completely fenced in.

You know it doesn't do pictures well, they don't. It couldn't hurt to go to Wally World (Walmart) and get some fake surveillance cameras with really bright LEDs and position them in key areas, also. Douche bags aren't particularly smart.

Very sorry for the loss. I had found rat posion ne day near my dalmatian's food and almost lost my mind, got him to the vet to check sure enough he had injested a lot. It took along time almost a year for him to recover.

((hugs))