Dutch Shepherd Forum

All we have currently for Rufus to chew on are some pig ears and a rawhide roll. I know rawhide can be bad for their digestion if they swallow big chunks. So far, he's just knawing off tiny pieces...We needed something to keep his mouth occupied though.

Would you guys recommend bully sticks for us to get for him? I've read alot of people use elk bones...but we don't like the idea of giving them. What is your chewy treat of choice for pups?
Found these that we could order...but we can also pick a few up from the pet store this week.
http://www.bestbullysticks.com/home/bbs ... iSu1VrvaSp

I'm planning on ordering him a Goughnut toy this week, but he's not a huge toy loving pup yet. So, I'm not sure if he'll even mess with it.

Also, he came to us on Castor&Pollux ORGANIX puppy food. Is that a good one for him to be on? Or should we switch him to Blue Buffalo large breed puppy chow? He is going to be a big boy...we want to make sure he has everything he needs to grow properly.

Bully sticks are great, but deer and elk antlers last way longer. Tyson could chew through a bully stick in no time. I give them to him occasionally still, but I have to go with the thick braided ones and they are basically just a distraction.
Here is a link to the latest discussion on chew items: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2969

I feed raw, but if I needed to switch to kibble I'd go with Orijen or Acana. Here is a link to a pretty lengthy discussion on what everyone feeds.

Drat...the link didn't paste...here it is: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1273

Stacy_R wrote:Bully sticks are great, but deer and elk antlers last way longer. Tyson could chew through a bully stick in no time. I give them to him occasionally still, but I have to go with the thick braided ones and they are basically just a distraction.
Here is a link to the latest discussion on chew items: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2969

I feed raw, but if I needed to switch to kibble I'd go with Orijen or Acana. Here is a link to a pretty lengthy discussion on what everyone feeds.

I like what I'm reading on the Orijen, but it's super expensive. I think Petco might have it here, but I'm not sure. Petsmart no longer carries the Acana-if it's the one I'm thinking of. I know they have Blue Buffalo, which is why I'm asking.
I know it's not a top of the line dog chow, but it's better than most of the foods out there.

We had picked up some Grain Free Authority puppy food, but I've since seen that grain free isnt recommended for growing pups. (Didn't know that at the time of getting it...was recommended to me as a decent food so we tried it out.)

Thanks for the links! I'll check them out!

Anybody know how the Solid Gold Wolf Cub large breed puppy food is? Looks decent from what I'm reading...but you guys seem to know way more than I do about the chows!

http://www.petco.com/product/15048/Soli ... Food-15048

Here are a couple of reviews on that particular food:
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food ... 20&cat=all
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... -food-dry/

have you checked out mom & pop pet supply places in your area? i find the good ones are generally cheaper than the chain stores and stock better stuff. plus they might give you a lower price than posted for your regular business. i would use the kibble already recommended or Merrick.

why are you against elk or deer antlers? they really do work so well without health downside. the others here convinced me, we got our first a few weeks ago and there is no going back to an antler-free zone.

johninny wrote:have you checked out mom & pop pet supply places in your area? i find the good ones are generally cheaper than the chain stores and stock better stuff. plus they might give you a lower price than posted for your regular business. i would use the kibble already recommended or Merrick.

why are you against elk or deer antlers? they really do work so well without health downside. the others here convinced me, we got our first a few weeks ago and there is no going back to an antler-free zone.

We have no mom and pop stores anymore. Only a Petsmart, Petco, Pet Food Discounters (huge mark up on dog food...its ridiculous) and Pet Supplies Plus. Just chain stores. Just trying to find a good quality kibble that we can get a good amount for a decent price. Most of the high quality foods are insanely expensive for just a small bag.

We've had a pup try to wolf a whole bone down before. I'm not against antlers when he's older, just don't want him to try swallowing it whole by trying to keep it from the other dog. Flint has to have all bones in a room...we have to almost keep them separated to give them both a bone. I've heard horror stories of a dog that's ended up with one stuck in his throat and have to have it surgically removed.

Looks like Merrick is the cheapest for the quality, so we may go with that. However, the reviews I'm reading say the calcium to phosphorous ratio is too high...which could cause issues with development of the skeletal system and such. Why do the good foods have to be so expensive?

Tappy4me wrote:I'm not against antlers when he's older, just don't want him to try swallowing it whole by trying to keep it from the other dog.

Easy enough...just make sure you get one too big for him to swallow...they come in all sizes and shapes.

johninny wrote:elk or deer antlers...they really do work so well without health downside. the others here convinced me, we got our first a few weeks ago and there is no going back to an antler-free zone.

WOOT!! An antler convert!! "No antler-free zone"...love it!

Tappy4me wrote:We have no mom and pop stores anymore. Only a Petsmart, Petco, Pet Food Discounters (huge mark up on dog food...its ridiculous) and Pet Supplies Plus. Just chain stores. Just trying to find a good quality kibble that we can get a good amount for a decent price. Most of the high quality foods are insanely expensive for just a small bag. Why do the good foods have to be so expensive?

Have you tried online sources?
Petfooddirect.com
chewy.com
pet360.com
amazon.com

I looked online and Merrick at Petco online is $15.29 for a 5 lb bag and Orijen at petfooddirect.com is $19.79 for a 5 lb bag.

Yea, I saw Petco and Petfooddirect have it...but a 5 lb bag would go fast I would think...I was looking more at prices of the larger bags. But, I think I will go ahead and get a 5 lb bag of the Orijen. Just do smaller bags more often. I do like the look of it the best, with all the good reviews and such. Does it matter if it's just puppy or does it need to be large breed formula?


I plan to get an antler for him soon then He should enjoy that! I'll order a couple from the place I'm getting the bully sticks from! I've just been hesitant about them...but if none of you guys have had a problem, I'll go ahead and get some.

Tappy4me wrote:Does it matter if it's just puppy or does it need to be large breed formula?

I can't answer that. I had 2 GSD's and never fed them large breed formulas...

Tappy4me wrote:I plan to get an antler for him soon then He should enjoy that! I'll order a couple from the place I'm getting the bully sticks from! I've just been hesitant about them...but if none of you guys have had a problem, I'll go ahead and get some.

Honestly, a dog can choke on a bully stick just as easily as he can choke on anything else... The key is just making sure that you give them something too big to swallow so they have to chew it. As far as antlers go, there are flat, round, split, and buttons...small, med, large, XL.

Here is the current assortment at our house. The smallest one WAS a concave split antler about the size of the one above it. Now, between all three dogs, it has been gnawed down to almost nothing.

Ordering Bully sticks now, and will pick up some elk antlers the next time I'm at Petsmart. I know they carry those.

After talking with my husband, we are going to do the Wellness Core puppy food just because of our budget. Ordering will become a hassle, just due to shipping(it's a killer)-at least for now until my husband finds another job. Can pick up wellness at any of our stores. Have 2 stores we can check that don't have websites however and see if they carry Orijen or Acana in stock. If so, we'll get it there. As much as we'd like to put him on the best, we just can't swing it yet. :/

Since you have a Pet Supplies Plus in your area, you might want to check Fromm (Canadian made) and Core Wellness (Old Mother Hubbard), both companies are around for a while. Core Wellness got even a 5 star rating on the dogfoodadvisor.com. It is not cheap either but not as expensive as the Orijen.

Wysong is great too but most likely only available online or at Wholefoods and other health food stores. Wysong is around since the 70' and was, I believe, the only pet food company not having a recall during the big scandal a couple of years ago. They also came up with the probiotic coating of kibble. Since they are small and didn't have the money to get a patent, they are now being sued by a big pet food company claiming they came up with it. Wysong was also first with the pea protein (Epigen) which is now widely used in other high quality food. Wysong.net has tons of nutritional info. It's made in the US in their own facility.

You asked about Solid Gold. They are also around for a while and their Hundchen Flocken and Seameal supplement were one of my favorites when my two black Labs were puppies. But that was many years ago and dog food has tremendously improved. The choices of super premium foods as we know them today were limited then. I think they got a bit behind their competition.

I know, it's a jungle out there..... Just looking down the isle of Pet Supplies Plus and all the different foods, makes your head spin.

I am lucky, still have a small 'mom & pop" store in Jupiter, which gives discounts to regulars. They carry only raw and super premium dog foods.

I also used to cook my own dog food but good quality ingredients are so expensive, I might as well buy high quality raw frozen food and save myself some time.

BTW,I feed right now BRAVO New Zealand Beef - raw frozen (Meat, bones, organs grounded) in the evening and in the morning a kibble which I always change around. Last bag was Fromm, next bag might be CORE. I also use Hokamix. It's a supplement with 30 different herbs and is from the Netherlands. Marco goes crazy over it. http://www.hokamix.nl/EN/About-Hokamix/Herbs Might be a Dutch thing

These are my and I hope I didn't bring more confusion to it.

and do go for the big bag to save the money so you can afford more good stuff for him. 5 lb will be gone in an instant. should be putting on 5 lb per week and to go nuts all day long AND grow that much takes an awful lot of food AND good nutrition.

Eva, first i have heard of the Hokamix. is it just herbal, i.e., is it an ''only'' supplement or could it be used alongside my general nutrition Platinum Performance supplement without overdosing on non-herbal ingredients? [ have not read your link yet, so i will go there and maybe these questions will be answered.]

In regards to Acana, which is made by the same company as Orijen and very often recommended as an less expensive alternative to Orijen.

I tried their single source Lamb & Apples with Oats. First a 5 lb bag. I could literally smell the apples every time I opened the bag. And Marco didn't have gas as with Orijen, so I bought a big bag. When I opened the bag, the food smelled different, no apple scent as in the 5 lb bag and Marco had gas.

I emailed the company if they changed the formula. They responded their food can be compared to artisan bread which doesn't come out the same every time either. But I could return the bag to the retailer for a refund.

Also their claim "always fresh - never frozen" does not ring true with the lamb either. Since their small farmers can't supply enough for all formulas, it's been reserved for the grain free formulas. Otherwise they use New Zealand lamb and it IS frozen.

What I found especially weird in their answer is that they stated the lamb arrives at their factory at "fresh meat temperature". Does it mean it's thawing when trucked from the ship to their factory?

johninny wrote:why are you against elk or deer antlers? they really do work so well without health downside.

I don't want to be a dissenter on this, just my : I asked my vet of 17 years about chew options. He said he (and the other 2 vets in the office) have NEVER had to deal with a problem caused by rawhide chews, but they have seen broken teeth from antlers (not common, but it happens). Now, there may also be a connection to poor diet or dental care in those cases, but for me it's just not worth the risk, especially when rawhide has worked well for us in the past.

The rawhides we're getting now are "Wholesome Hide" from Mickey's Pet Supplies online. They're formed from a single piece of hide from US beef cows, and are made without the use of harsh chemicals. Compared the the Chinese garbage most places sell, these things provide a workout! Hilde can devour a cheap one in a few minutes, but these take her FOREVER. Working on one bone, 30 minutes each day, will last about 5 days. Therefore, the quantity she consumes is very unlikely to cause any digestive problems, and it would be quite difficult for her to break off a piece big enough to choke on.

Again, I'm not knocking antlers, just sharing my thoughts. If anyone chooses to give rawhides, try to get the good stuff. In this case you really do seem to get what you pay for. The longevity alone makes them more cost effective.

Yea, if we get it in the store, we'll get a big bag. Shipping is where the killer comes in there. I figured 5 lbs would be gone quick..Hopefully Pet Supplies Plus or Pet Food Discounters will have one of the above at a decent price. I know he's going to grow quick, and grow big if his feet and bones have anything to show for it. In the meantime while we're looking, we'll get the Wellness Core (or Core Wellness...however you say it) since I know we won't get out to the other section of town til next weekend.

johninny wrote: Eva, first i have heard of the Hokamix. is it just herbal, i.e., is it an ''only'' supplement or could it be used alongside my general nutrition Platinum Performance supplement without overdosing on non-herbal ingredients? [ have not read your link yet, so i will go there and maybe these questions will be answered.]

I personal avoid mixing different supplements unless prescribed by our holistic vet or they are food stuff like raw organic honey, fresh blueberries, yoghurt, etc.. Alternating might be a good approach, otherwise it might overdose and just gets eliminated unused or might even cancel each other out, or worse, might be a toxic overdose. Herbs can be quite powerful.

Hokamix has a new US distributor, a Doberman breeder up North. I called her directly to order and it came withing 2 days via USPS priority mail:
Vicky Brachfeld, Bell’Lavoro Dobermans
High Point K9 Training Center – 845-386-9929 (Jami is in the office)
http://www.BellLavoroDobes.com
http://www.HighPointK9.com

thank you, Eva.
Jess, if you are getting antlers and do not have a direct local source [ elk or deer head to you ], then i followed the recommendation here to use www.elkusa.com if for no other reason than $ savings.

I'll have to check them out. The one I bought yesterday is a big hit.

Won't have any access to local deer antlers until hunting season comes around. ..IF we manage to bring as buck down lol.

Thanks!