Dutch Shepherd Forum

First what does KNPV mean. Second can a vet do the hip and elbow xray to test for hip dysplasia susceptibility or do I need to take her to a specialist. I see on some of the threads that breeders and other individuals who have posted here talk about some test and i am not to sure what they are talking about. And last has anyone here trained or known anyone that trained their DS for search and rescue? I know I will post more questions since I am not to up with the lingo just yet. Thx for the help

Hi Casey! I'll try my best to answer the questions I can, and I'm sure the more informed members will jump in too!

1) KNPV stands for the Koninklijke Nederlandse Politiehond Vereniging (Royal Dutch Police Dog Association). There's some great info on the history of it here: http://www.sevenpineskennel.com/knpv_history.htm
In basic terms it's a working line. KNPV versus FCI, from my understanding, means that the KNPV line is not limited to only the dog's breed. For example, a KNPV DS may have some malinois, some GSD, some pit bull in some occasions, in it's breeding history because they're breeding dogs with good working abilities and personalities. An FCI dog only has, for example, DS in it's breeding history and is bred for conformation. As a generalization, a KNPV dog is bred to work and must have jobs and is a bit more energetic, and while an FCI dog still has those qualities, it is not in such a concentrated form, a bit more "laid back" because it's not being bred to solely work. Now this is just a very vague generalization, every dog is different, and someone will correct me if I'm totally off my mark.
2) No idea on the hip & elbow stuff, sorry. But I'm interested in that too!
3) I believe S&R training is done with a group. I would google to see what S&R dog teams are in your area and contact them. Some groups require the owners be a member of the group a year before you can move on to dog handling, but I think this is based on the group. Either way they would be able to assist you. There are a few trainers I've seen online but I'm not sure how legit they are. I know Karin on here is training her dog for S&R.

Hope this helps! Feel free to ask any other questions you can think of! We're happy to help.

KNPV stands for Koninklijke Nederlandse Politiehond Vereniging meaning the Royal Dutch Police Dog Association. It's a bite sport and a certification program for police and military dogs. You're likely seeing it referenced in the breeding or pedigree of a dog, which simply means that the dogs behind a puppy have earned a certification in KNPV. You'll see that with a PH1, PH2, etc in the pedigrees.

Since KNPV doesn't require pedigrees and purebred papers, you'll see dogs bred solely for work and might have a few other breeds added in if it makes a better dog, mainly malinois with the DS. In the US, Dutch Shepherds are typically referred to as FCI or KNPV. FCI dogs have purebred papers with generations of DS behind the dog.

Any vet can do the hip/elbow x-rays, but you want to find one that knows the correct positioning and is familiar with reading the x-ray. I had diagnostic x-rays done for Odin at our family vet. They weren't perfect, but they were enough to show what problems he was having. If you're planning on breeding, you'll want those x-rays to be sent off to OFA for a score and then the vet has to be familiar with sending them in and having the right positioning and paperwork. There's also PennHip which is a different way of checking hip that only certain vets know how to do.

There's no testing for hip dysplasia susceptibility though, especially in a puppy. For regular x-rays, you need to wait until the dog is 2 years old. PennHip can be done sooner though. The parents should have been x-rayed and that gives a better picture about what chances the puppies may have. Are you seeing a problem with your dog's hips that you want to get checked out?

Sadie has Double HD. I had my local vet take xrays. I did go to a specialist but he didnt find anythign more than my vet did. I did have her xray'd before one year old.

Thank you Kira and Stephanie for the explanations. No pepper isn't showing any signs at all. I just want to make sure that I do the right thing and take all the steps I can to give her all the proper care to keep her healthy and with us for a long time. Also in the future I would like to breed her but just one litter solely for companion dogs for the family. Her temperament and drive is perfect for out family and I want to provide proper documentation with her when we do decide to do that. Both her father and mother were from working lines. Both police dogs, but both had a really laid back attitude with good drive. I was just lucky getting her. What kind of steps did they tell you to do with Sadie to help her

diet is so important w/r/t your concerns. there is much in past discussions about feeding methods and/or good brands of food to buy. to maintain healthy joints, one would recommend specific ingredients to emphasize for regular dietary intake: essential fatty acids [ EFAs; omega 3's in particular], probiotics, and glucosamine/chondroitin [in a form that is high in bio-availability for dogs!]. not getting as much attention as these,veterinary studies have shown in recent years that regular, life-long supplements of Vit C can dramatically improve joint health in any dog, but can have hugely positive, life-altering improvement [ vs. control ] in dogs where problems were expected with aging, even to the point of fending off problems with individual dogs that have been diagnosed with hips that should develop dysplasia. for vit c, i recommend ascorbyl palmitate as the most bio-available form.

edit: i remember seeing a post elsewhere about a big-box store's version of blue buffalo. ??? have you compared labels exactly? i do not know anything about their in-house food, but just offer a caution; someone else including yourself may know the answer. also same listed ingredients can be sourced very differently - like chemical-laden ingredients from china that the average kibble uses versus locally-known ingredients that the [actually] better brands use. you can usually find a local mom-and-pop store that will offer [ even privately for the promise of loyalty ] a great price on a good brand that is less expensive than anything but the worst choices at the big-box stores.

If you arent seeing any signs of hip problems then there may not be any. but if you want to breed her, then I can see why you would want xrays. Other than a good diet and exercise, there really isnt much. I watch what I do with her and how much I do. If I notice something makes her ouchy I either limit it or dont allow it. She is 3 now so I have notices she is compensating better. Her first winter was really ouchy. If she plays rough with Thalie and hurts herself, she will stop and go lay down.

Thank you John and Lisa. For the ascorbyl palmitate is pill form the best to give and how often should it be given? I did compare it to blue wilderness and it is nearly identical other than the store brand has 1% more crude protein and .5% more omega 3. It also has ascorbic acid in it as well. Being water soluble I would think ascorbic acid doesn't stay in the body much where as the ascorbyl palmitate is fat soluble and is stored. Since its stored wouldn't it help the animal better or am I wrong. Again thank you so much everyone for taking the time to answer my questions.

for many years, i have given my dog 1 500mg capsule per day [ tho sometimes do 2 for various reasons of health, weather, exercise, etc], but i pour the powder contents out of the capsule into the food. so powder or capsule does not matter; i go for the convenience [ and i have taken 4 - 6/day for the last 44 years, so the dogs and i share ]. where i shop, vitamin shoppe is the only store that carries ascorbyl palmitate -- and they carry both capsules and powder. if one had extra reason to be concerned about joint health [ old age, tough daily exercise regimen, or poor hip prognosis ], a larger daily dose of vit c - would make sense, but best to split up, like 500mg 2 or 3x per day.
if one is giving extra probiotic [ beyond what is in food, yogurt, etc] that comes in capsules, then it is best to leave those contents in the capsule [ which is hopefully designed to make its way into the intestinal tract before disintegrating].

Hi Casey.

I am training my now 8 month old DS in SAR in California. I started working with our local group when he was 10 weeks old, not intensively or anything, just fun runaways. I think the DS are very skilled at this. Their noses are long and they have lots of dark pigment, both associated with better olfactory functioning. AND he loves to work with a mission. He is completely a different dog when we are training.

Anyway, let me know if you have specific questions.

Best and enjoy your guy. Beautiful picture.

Karin wrote:Hi Casey.

Their noses are long and they have lots of dark pigment, both associated with better olfactory functioning.

AAHhhhhhhhhhhhhh So that explaines why Sadie wont keep her nose to herself !!!