Dutch Shepherd Forum

After much hemming and hawing, I've decided to make leap to raw food. Tonight I mixed her old food and raw food half and half and she couldn't wait for me to set down the bow. Usually, she runs to her kennel then walks away once I set the food down but she never lifted her snout out of the bowl. I think I may have solved the issue she has with occasionally becoming anorexic.
I went with green tripe because I can order from a local company with a good rep. I'm a vegetarian and this stuff smells awful.

When you say "mixed her old food with the raw," if you mean, you mixed kibble with raw, that's a no-no. They digest at different rates, so you never feed kibble and raw at the same meal.

Given her reaction to the raw, I"d say you'd have no problem just switching cold turkey (ha ha).

Of course, you plan to add a lot of variety besides the tripe!

Funny, I had heard it was a no no, to mix foods but the raw company said to make the switch slowly and mix the old food with the new. I was more worried about her having intestinal "issues." We had an incident once that we call diarhea Valdez (after the famous oil spill) that happened after she ate a knuckle bone. It was AWFUL.

The company that makes the food is called Green Tripe: http://www.greentripe.com/

The Excaliber product has all sorts of body parts in it: muscle, heart, tongue, trachea and ground bone. I am totally grossed out by it. Chaos is usually pretty good at stealing her veggies from the livestock on the ranch but I'll suppliment her with some of those, too. Maybe she'll leave some extra greens for the sheep.

I'm a big propnent of feeding meat animals (and humans) natural foods that they are ment to eat. Judging by Chaos's reaction, we figured out what she wants to eat.

Welcome to the world of raw feeding.

I presume you've been researching the diet and requirements for feeding your dog ?
It's a little more involved than tripe & veggies
( I'm sure you're planning on more than that but your post kind of gave the impression that that was all your were going to offer )
Green Tripe's Excaliber mix is great but it is not a complete diet, you need lots more stuff.

Here's some reading to get you started ( obviously there are TONS of sites about raw feeding on the web so google away and read away ) :
http://rawfed.com/myths/feedraw.html

There is also a very active yahoo group that discusses raw feeding at length that you may want to join http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

It seems complicated when first starting out but gets easier as time goes by. Variety is really important.

Jenny,

I looked through the links you provided and the general idea that I got out of it was:

1) there is no problem with green tripe as long as it not the only thing in the diet
2) you need to feed some raw bone - no more than 25% and probably less
3) add in some raw (mostly whole) critter/fish/fowl/etc - caveat emptor

Is that a good summary?

If not can you give us a cliff notes version of what you think of as the perfect raw diet.

Thanks,
eric

I wish I could do raw here in Va, but I cannot find a good meat source to back to kibble for mine. But... I have done tons of my own research on it and bought almost all the books I could. I would highly recommend anyone wanting to switch to raw to do tons of research first. Back when I switched, I did cold turkey.. Leerburg has a pretty good article on raw feeding, but you have to figure out for yourselves whether or not you want to do veggies or not... That is a pretty hot topic in raw feeding, so are supplements. My point is do research and have plan out meals before you switch over to raw. And good luck with your dogs new diet! He/she will love it and his/her teeth will stay nice and clean

kimkim is right - do your research.
It does seem complicated and you'll go into information overload while figuring it out Maybe you'll even decide it's not for you. That's ok. There are lots of high quality kibble diets out there that dogs do great on.

Eric is right - Green tripe is fine to feed as long as it's not the only thing in the diet. ( sorry if there was any confusion with my first post in this topic )

Raw feeding is a very heated subject.
You'll meet people that are 110% opposed that'll say some pretty nasty things about the diet and the harm you're doing, how you will kill your pet.
On the flip side there are those that are extremely passionate about raw feeding that'll say anything they can to convince people that is the only way to feed your pet ( and how kibble feeders are poisoning their pets ).

Me ???? I'm one of those accepting people that thinks either way is fine

The only thing that I'm really passionate about regarding diet ( raw or kibble ) , is that people read up and do research on what they are feeding.

Here's some more raw reading for you
http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm

Enjoy

Once I decided to switch to raw, this book made it seem so simple and had some recipes to follow to get started:
http://www.kymythy.com/book-naturalnutrition.html

kimkim wrote:I wish I could do raw here in Va, but I cannot find a good meat source to back to kibble for mine.

Have you looked for any buying co-ops? There is a good one in Richmond (I think they do Oma's), and I'm in one here in C'Ville. Yahoo Groups has a ton of raw feeding groups and local area co-ops you might want to check out...

Thanks for the links! The links that everyone posted are all very good resources. I don't think that raw feeding is complicated unless you compare it to the simplicity of feeding 2 cups of kibble, twice a day, rinse and repeat. Most animals (humans included) need variety. I would prefer to eat cheese enchiladas every day but I hear it's not OK. If you're a sheep, you want a variety of grasses and vines. If you're a pig you want a variety of everything, especially acorns and roots. If you're a dog you apparently want a variety of proteins in whole. I can deal with variety. I can deal with limiting certain things like organ meat content or bone content. It's easier than trying to read ingredients on the dog food bag.

As I get a little more comfortable with the idea of raw feeding, I get a little more comfortable with the concept of introducing new foods. Three days ago, we introduced egg (the chikens had a couple of warm days and produced a surplus.) When Chaos was on kibble, every tiny diet change produced explosive results. On the raw diet that she's been on for just a short bit, she's had not one single issue. I'm amazed. I'm encouraged. That leads me to believe this is working for her. This weekend, we're going to try our first meaty bones. I acquired some goat. I'm assuming goat is fine, although I haven't been able to find any refernces in the feeding litterature. I attribute it to goat not being popular in the US. If anyone knows differently, now's the time to speak up. I'll try poultry as soon as I can find a local source because I have ethical issues with getting chicken that was processed in a plant. I found a local raw food yahoo group advertising on Craigslist (of all places!) and I'm looking for somone to buy meat with.

One thing I'm very unclear about, and it seems like the kind of thing people are disagreeing on is the fast day. Does anyone here do it? Is there any real science behind it?

I don't feed raw, but I DO fast my kibble fed dog. Coincides well with weekly SchH training, when I'd like his food drive nice and high.

Goat is fine to feed.
My guys LOVE it. Was lucky enough recently to get one already cut up, packaged and frozen for free off craigslist.
Family had raised it for meat then discovered they didn't like the taste.

I agree , there is a lot of disagreement about whether to fast or not. So I guess it's up to you whether or not you'll add a fasting day to your routine.
Me, I'm not convinced either way whether it is a benefit or not.

I don't fast my guys but do reduce food for breakfast for the Beauceron on heavy training days, she needs all the help she can get to get her drives up. Tried fasting her a few times but the result was an obsessive grazing dog, so a mini meal helps prevent that. Darn goofy dog

Fast the Dutch Shepherd ..... No Way...... I'd likely loose a hand

Glad the diet change is going well and you're feeling comfortable with it.
Thanks for sharing your updates.
Jenny

Marsha, I don't fast, either. And, it's not the only thing raw feeders disagree about! So many people are so adamant that their way is the only way to do it...tho that's with just about anything, training, etc. So no real surprise there.

I'm glad to hear the raw is improving the intestinal processing issues for your dog. My GSD had horrible IBD for the first two years of her life, and it only improved by switching to raw. That made me a total convert. My cats are raw fed too, and it works great for them.

I tend to stay away from weight-bearing RMBs; those are more recreational bones for us. You should get some beef knuckles sometime and watch your dog go to town, Sally Brown, on one . I was shocked at how large they are!

Glad you're finding sources...

Brindle wrote: Fast the Dutch Shepherd ..... No Way...... I'd likely loose a hand

ROFL. I have to be quick with my treats on Sundays.

[quote="leih merigian"]When you say "mixed her old food with the raw," if you mean, you mixed kibble with raw, that's a no-no. They digest at different rates, so you never feed kibble and raw at the same meal.

your saying that its either only kibble or only raw at one time? Ive fed my DS for years, veggies, turkey and kibble, same for my parents basset, and never had a problem.

Dutchringgirl wrote:

leih merigian wrote:When you say "mixed her old food with the raw," if you mean, you mixed kibble with raw, that's a no-no. They digest at different rates, so you never feed kibble and raw at the same meal.

your saying that its either only kibble or only raw at one time? Ive fed my DS for years, veggies, turkey and kibble, same for my parents basset, and never had a problem.

I have read that theory in a variety of resources, but I can't wrap my head around the science of it. The downfall, in my head, is that bone digests at a different rate as muscle, which is different from skin, which is different from carrot mush.... So I would need something scientific to change my practices.

Personally, I feed raw to almost my whole crew. The hard keepers get some high quality kibble with their meal. I know I could supplement with more fat, more protein, satin balls..... but this is easier. They still get the overall benefits of the raw but stay at a much more consistent weight.

Dutchringgirl wrote:

leih merigian wrote:When you say "mixed her old food with the raw," if you mean, you mixed kibble with raw, that's a no-no. They digest at different rates, so you never feed kibble and raw at the same meal.

your saying that its either only kibble or only raw at one time? Ive fed my DS for years, veggies, turkey and kibble, same for my parents basset, and never had a problem.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. That's what I've always read and heard.

Since dogs evolved as scavengers of human leavings, I'm not surprised that many dogs can do just fine with mixed meals. I guess, bottom line, if your dog does fine on whatever the eating program is, well, whatever works .

I have fed an alternating combo of raw and kibble for nearly 10 years now. So far, so good. Dogs get whole meaty venison bones three days a week; kibble in between mixed with whatever leftovers we have at my office from being catered, mostly veggies as the younger set here dont eat anything green. Funny I work for cardiologists who insist on a vegan diet but only us old folks here eat veggies. The venison is free as I get those 80-90 carcasses from a local hunting club every season. Lots of work processing but the results are worth it.

We feed raw meaty bones mainly and you want the right mixture of bone and meat. I have found that you can achieve this by watching the "stool". If it is too loose then ad more bone. IF your pup is constipated then add more muscle/organ meat.

Liver is good a couple of times a week but you don't want to overfeed liver as there can be problems with vitamin "A" overdose as it is not water soluble.

Chicken backs and wings are good as well as quarters if you don't overdo the meat and keep plenty of bone in there for them.

Never ever cook the meat or bones as that could kill them by hardening the bones. Chicken, rabbit and pork have soft bones. You have to be careful of goat or lamb and the large load bearing bones of cows as they are all a harder bone that is more trouble for them to digest. http://www.rawmeatybones.com is one of many quick sites that have good information.

I have done about 100+ hours of research with my pharmacist wife and it is not certain that dogs need "any" vegetables based on a number of studies done on wolves in the wild. Some claim that wolves eat the green stuff in their prey's stomach but numerous studies have shown that is not so (they clean out the stomach and then eat it). That said I figure that it won't hurt them and I like to give them some broccoli, carrots, and apples to just make sure .... Our last dog loved carrots and apples and lived to be 13 at 85lbs without any real problems until the last three days of her life.

There are a lot of books out there you can read as well but I am convinced that raw is the way to go for fewer problems with arthritis and trips to the vet and the dogs look great! At $70 a bag for Orijen I think raw may be cheaper too!

I think that everyone should do what makes them and their dog happy but that's just my two cents, wish we had started raw sooner and my 13 year old might have been here longer.

turnnburn52984 wrote:

Brindle wrote: Fast the Dutch Shepherd ..... No Way...... I'd likely loose a hand

ROFL. I have to be quick with my treats on Sundays.

My fingers are secretly crying... Gwen eats like a shark and when we train well... my fingers pay the price... When Gwen was a hatchling, we went to classes, they tried to help us but they've never trained a dutch shepherd... we worked on not eating the fingers.. it doesn't go so well when the treats stick to your hands..(like chicken or beef)... needless to say my nails are cut short again as we are getting serious about doing some real work.

I just hope my fingers survive.