Dutch Shepherd Forum

Chaos has had a recent personality change. She went from running around, bothering cats, playing with her toy to self-entertain at night, to lounging by the heater, not really interested in playing for very long. When I first got her she had a lot of drive to do protection work with good solid hits and strong bites. I didn't work it too much with her because she still seemed immature and I wanted to give her some time to grow up. I'm not sure if that's the right answer. Now, she seems to be losing a lot of her drive to do protection work. We tried to do bite work for the first time in six months and she laid down and quit before we even got started. I attributed it to her being in heat (her second heat) but three weeks after, she still isn't interested. Kind of a bummer, I was intersted in trying a ring sport but she may not be into it anymore.

Several things happened in the same time period: We started working with a new trainier. I really like his style and she responds well. We started working with the e-collar. I understand a lot of dogs go through a brief depression after they are introduced to the e-collar but it's been a while now. She also had her second heat three weeks ago. After that heat, she never seemed to bounce back.

Any thoughts? Is this vet worthy?

If this were my dog she would be on her way to the vet.
It *may* be nothing but why take the risk.

Those personality changes sure sound a little extreme so I'd want to be 110% sure there is not an underlying medical problem.
Be sure to let the vet know she was in heat 3 weeks ago. Something to worry about with the girls is a pyometra ( infection in the uterus ). This can happen without them being bred and is a very very serious condition.
How's her gait ? ( how she moves ) Any chance you've had hip films done yet ?
Pain can make dogs seem lethargic. Hips, abdomen, back, etc etc. This is a very stoic breed so they hide pain well.
Again, if this were my dog she'd be at the vet.

Not sure how experienced you are with e-collar work but a 'stim' at the wrong time or wrong level can have very long lasting negative effects. Just throwing that out there. Not implying anything happened. Just I've seen them used wrong all too many times.

Here's the disclaimer ....... I'm not a vet and not making any diagnoses. Just sharing thoughts openly as you asked for them.
Only a vet who physically examines your dog can determine if this is a medical condition or not.

Please keep us all updated on what happens with your girl.
Hope she's back to her normal fiesty self soon

I'd also be on my way to the vet for a thorough exam, some bloodwork, and urine. Ask for a GHP (General health Profile) and this will give you a good indicator of what is going on inside her. Best case scenario, nothing is medically wrong, and you have good baseline numbers for her, if she ever does get sick.

I think that good training means that you introduce one hurdle at a time. I read that she has had several 'new' situations tossed at her at the same time. Some of which you cannot help (heat) but some you could back off on. Toss the E collar for one. At least for now (why are you using it on a 18 month old that does not seem to be too much of a handful right now?)
Let her ease into the new trainer/training gradually. I am not a running to the vet person (though my bill does NOT reflect that!) but I will seek behavior in my own failure first, and the dog(s health) gets blamed as a last option.

I'm also not a rush to the vet person either. (Obviously, since I didn't take her already.) At our house, Chaos is one of several animals of varying species. Let’s just say that I know most of the vets in the area. I'm also more inclined to go with a training issue.

After writing this and ruminating on the issue, I decided to lay off the obedience for a few days, because that's what's hardest for her and see if that helped. This morning I looked out and she was running laps around my husband, picking up her toy and dropping it back off with him, at top speed. So, I guess she's feeling better. I'll call it a classic case of overtraining, too much too fast and then I think working with her while she was in heat and tired was the last straw. I feel stupid for not recognizing it. I've worked with smart, highly talented horses my whole life and know what it looks like when they are pushed too hard. I think because I'm less confident with dog behavior, I failed to recognize what's familiar to me with the horses.

I'm going to let her relax for awhile. We started using the e-collar in order to proof her recall and stop her from chasing the neighbor's horses. It's the only way we have found to bring her back once she's on the run. I've managed to get her to stop chasing the cats outside but the large animals, deer, which I don't care about and horses are still her big temptation. If I can stop her early, she'll back off but if she gets more than 15 feet from me, it's game on. That neighbor is not so understanding about her being a young dog and I don't want to cause a real veterinary emergency when she gets kicked. I think I'll give her some time to slowly ease into the collar and not work it for anything non-essential. I really have to keep in mind that she is still immature and there's no reason to rush her because she will certainly do her best to keep up.
If this doesn’t bring her energy back up, we’ll get the vet to work her up next time he’s out. I’m sure he’ll be out any day for something.

SO GLAD to hear she is feeling better !!!!

I've been very worried about her for you.
We all need a break once in a while so we don't burn out. Sounds like you found out she was ready for a break.

Hope she continues to feel frisky & fiesty

After all , it is the Dutch Shepherd way !!!