Dutch Shepherd Forum

I know there is alot of controversy about chicken vs chicken by products. This is for kibble fed pooches.

I read an interesting article. We are told to stay away from by products because of the icky things we are told are in there. BUT

In the AAFCO definition book, chicken falls under poultry:

Poultry is the clean combination of flesh and skin, with or without bone, derived from the parts or whole carcasses of poultry or a combination thereof, exclusive of feathers, heads, feet, and entrails.

chicken by-products, which also fall under poultry:

Poultry by-products must consist of non-rendered clean parts of carcasses of slaughtered poultry such as heads, feet, viscera, free from fecal content and foreign matter except in such trace amounts as might occur unavoidably in good factory practice.

The definition of chicken in pet food, according to the AAFCO guidelines, states that it doesn’t need to come from slaughtered animals.

if the label says chicken, it could be from dead or diseased chickens. But for chicken by-products, the AAFCO definition requires that the sourcing must be from slaughtered animals!

The bag with the chicken says, “from USDA inspected facilities”, while the bag with the chicken by-products says, “from USDA inspected and approved animals.”

But it really means nothing because chickens banned for use in human food can still come from USDA inspected facilities. But, if the animal passes the inspection and is approved, then it’s much more likely that the chicken wasn’t a rotten, decomposing carcass.

I found this very interesting, it is from DogNaturally Magazine.

Dog food or human food...it's all become a big gamble.

too many variables. one just has to KNOW FOR GOOD REASON that the company that produces the food is reliable and will do everything possible to do the right thing. otherwise, the labels - which are an invaluable starting point - become fairly useless in the absence of lab testing, and even that has severe limitations.

I find it rather funny that so many people avoid chicken by products in their kibble, but pour out tons of money on dehydrated chicken feet and necks from high end boutiques.

Everyone that raw feeds knows how important organ meet is and even John gets a canned food with organ meet. Those are classified under by-products as well with the exception of giblets that were handled a certain way. People in my co-op spend more money on chicken feet, kidney, backs, and lungs than they do on chicken quarters that are considered real chicken.

I buy chicken feet wholesale in 40lb cases and usually dehdydrate 1/2 of it for a daily snack and use the other stuff raw to balance out things like turkey and beef hearts. I started getting the wholesale chicken feet this Spring and Odin is only getting half of his glu/chron supplement every 3 days compared to the whole dose every day. My dogs are getting more chicken by-products than regular chicken and it's actually better for them because it's balanced with everything else and sourced properly.

In dog food, chicken is also mainly water, so even though it may be the first ingredient, it's not as protein and nutrient dense as a lot of these by-products are.

It's not a clear cut line like a lot of more expensive brands try to state.

LOL - i think that was what i was trying to say, without really having the knowledge to know it.

for me, in the end, it is about proper sourcing AND proper handling [ at a company or at home ].
i wish i had your extreme level of knowledge AND energy so i could do even better by my dogs.

the reason i was prompted to write this post/response was not the above [ which is simply a by-product of starting the post at all !] but was ....... ''even John''. [????] LOL [????????]

johninny wrote:LOL - i think that was what i was trying to say, without really having the knowledge to know it.

for me, in the end, it is about proper sourcing AND proper handling [ at a company or at home ].
i wish i had your extreme level of knowledge AND energy so i could do even better by my dogs.

the reason i was prompted to write this post/response was not the above [ which is simply a by-product of starting the post at all !] but was ....... ''even John''. [????] LOL [????????]

Whoops, I guess that's what I get for trying to type on my phone again. I didn't mean that in a bad way at all John haha. I meant someone who feeds a high quality kibble (those seem to be the biggest advocates again by-products) even adds by-products in the form of canned organ meats.

some reasonable diversity across all nutritional sources [ muscle meats, herbs, veggies ] is always well-advised. organ meats for dogs just seem to be a must, but then diversity there, too, is good. can't help but be so impressed by what you do on this score, Stephanie.

p.s.'s:
''even John'' -- i suspected it was meant positively, but, in ANY case, i was strangely honored by the mention in that context. it was a LOL moment which i needed.

a majority of the time since i became a 3 DS family [or maybe it is 2 1/2], i have been desperately sick and not able to tend to the dogs' training or quality-of-life needs as i should. but there has been a steady build in my determination to make better use of the many great farmers around here [ organic growing, grass-fed/free-range, etc ] for my dogs as opposed to just me. but that requires getting to know a whole new group of farmers [ except one of mine also has the best chickens and eggs that i do get, but dogs have only gotten benefit of the eggs ].
been recovering the last month and this discussion has generated so many ideas for developing local resources for the dogs. still not ready to go racing around the country-side, but hopefully in the next couple months, the dogs will start to get their fair share of local farm bounty. thank you Stephanie and Stacy for all the great ideas and input.

by the above-mentioned ''this discussion'', i was speaking of this thread and the concurrent ''changing diet''.
thanks all.

John -
Your dogs are lucky to have you!! And I am glad you are feeling better!!