Dutch Shepherd Forum

We're still battling GI problems from H's crate incident. I'm on the fence as to what exactly is going on but we've had roughly 3 weeks of dire-rear and not enough normal stools for me to be comfortable calling it "one off" stress reaction. We were given Flagyl over a week ago and I gave him roughly three days of it but there was no change (literally 3 days of good stools... and that was the end of that). They started before the vet and I know you should never stop an antibiotic course midway, but recent fecals show no insane imbalance of bacteria, so I'm hesitant to say it was that. No worms. No parasites. Normal. I put him on chicken with skins off and have him on restricted treats. Colostrum 2x along with Nupro and Benadryl. Saw a bit of an improvement on this (meaning morning stool is perfect but night poo is squirt-tastic). So I was thinking it was allergies as something is blooming and everyone - dog, cat, hamster, person - is suffering.

I was thinking maybe a bit pain related as his paw still isn't as back to normal as I would like, so maybe still clearing a bone bruise or there was a fracture (we're all still 50/50 on it as X-rays weren't clear and it's up to me to do more), and I'm hesitant to give him the rest of the Tramadrol or Rimadyl as he had a reaction to one of them and he's not showing outward signs of being in significant pain - still little limp here or there but that could also be muscles that were not used as much clenching and they are worked again. Maybe it's in part stress - his confidence is shaken, he's not working as much - so I've been taking him out to new places and running through obedience and upping my praise for things, as well as starting nose work.

One friend with a dog with IBS says it's not allergies but nausea because he's: throwing up mucus, mucus in the stools, glue-y saliva, and he's been stretching not downward dog more than normal and licking his paws. I'm all for entertaining all ideas at this point, even a mixture, but does anyone have any ideas of what could be causing nausea besides worms/mucus from nasal drainage into stomach? He's on a fairly restrictive diet (low fat, something I know he won't react to).

Kira,
i feel reading your post that there were earlier posts related to an incident and on-going GI problem that i have not seen, so pardon me if my questions/comments are redundant or mis-directed

i am curious why you stopped the flagyl after 3 days, especially if it resulted in 3 days of good stools.

if his stool has mucus, that is highly suggestive of the amoeba that flagyl would treat. also if it squirts [ LOTS of gas ], that's another sign of tropical amoeba. the mucus and powerful gas elements would not result from stress, as other, more normal diarrhea might. further, these tropical infections ebb and flow in their effects during the day and over longer periods, so without any intervention, they will appear to get much better for a few days and then worse again and the same intra-day.

i have found that the testing of dogs' fecal material is very limited - limited to just a few standard bacterial infections. one can ask for a more expensive test that covers a bit more, but no test for dogs that i have heard of in a vet's office is very extensive. none would detect tropical amoeba. so, i would not put any faith in the test results if symptoms suggest something else.

if it is a tropical infection, then a longish course of flagyl [ sometimes, at least in humans, it is also necessary to combine with cipro ] will be necessary to cure it. it is not an easy fix like many other bugs. no amount of time or other approach will get rid of a tropical infection; it could migrate, hibernate, hide, but will return and even spread to other parts of the body.

he has had this problem before if i remember correctly. was it the same - with mucus, etc?
did it go away and this is now a distinct new episode?

Oh you know H, John - he always has some GI problem! It was one of those fairly good stools the night before, good stools the morning of the vet, then good stools for 3 days, so it didn't seem that Flagyl was making it better (at the time I assumed he was on an upward swing as things had been getting a tiny bit better). I took him off and he had roughly 24 hours and it went back downhill. I thought about the amoeba (I think we've talked about it before, right?) and was literally a day away from calling the vet to get another 10 day run and combining whatever I had left when I realized that he seemed better (firmer stool - still loose - less mucus) when I gave him benadryl and worse (more mucus, softer stool) when I skipped a dose. He was never gas-y (his squirt poo was just... really mucus-y and liquid) and his spit was super thick, which was an odd combo in my mind.

As of now he's had a week of fantastic stools. I actually was also able to find some studies that histamine antagonizes the H1 and H2 receptors and actually can increase stomach acid and mucus in the gut. So as an experiment I started him on high doses of benadryl (at the time ragweed was insanely high and everyone was on double doses of Benadryl) for three days and BAM stools instantly stopped being mucus-y. So I started wiping him down with a damp cloth every time he came back from being inside and did smaller meals and now he's back to normal. It was weird because at the time I was almost able to time when his dire-rear would be worse or he would be more likely to vomit - and it was always within hours of something blooming that sent my allergies spinning.

My next move if once I remove the colostrum and yogurt and he goes back down while I'm keeping the benadryl and such up, is to say it is an amoeba and doing the Flagyl for a longer run again.

it does sound though like you have figured it out. good.

Man, I'm glad he steadied out. It's always something with him. He keeps you on your toes.

Good info posted.