Dutch Shepherd Forum

Hi guys - I'm never ever on the forum anymore, but I thought this would be a good place to come to to be talked down.

To reintroduce - I'm Aubrey and I have a 5.5 year old FS DSX - she had parvo when she was a pup and is pretty petite. I just bought a condo with my SO in August and I immediately wanted to start filling it with dogs (I know, very silly).

It's a VERY small condo, but that said, my dog leads a very full life. We have a shared sizable yard, I've never seen anyone use it but us. We're super close to parks of all types (on or off leash, hiking, swimming, you name it). My pup is active in flyball (weekly practices - tournaments about 6 times a year), starting rally, and is a fetch machine (on land, water, you name it). We've also started a cross conditioning program recently, just cause I'm ridiculous.

I see the argument for not having dogs in small apartments - but does their outdoor activity and sports not count for anything? Someone talk some sense into me - I've been wanting a second dog for years and have held back until we owned. And now that we do - I guess it's still not enough. Is it a proximity to other people issue?

Also, hello everyone - sorry I'm so whiny on my first post back.

Hi again! My other question is, during the day, where is she? What does she do? You seem to be keeping her pretty fit and active, thats good !!

What is the second dog? DS? another breed? I think two dogs is great. I have always had two when my situation could handle two. I think it is great for the dog to have another dog.

Im not sure about getting a second DS, unless it is a mix and you get lucky for a low drive dog. I would opt for a smaller breed that wont mind being in a small apt.

I was hoping you'd respond to talk some sense into me. Haha.

She has four days out of the week where she is home alone for a full work day (8/9 hours). When she was younger she went to daycare during the day. Now she is crated and I have a walker come on some days of the week. Thankfully she is medium to low (depending on who you ask) drive and doesn't have a fit waiting that long for us. (And she's crated cause she can get uncomfortable and very protective when allowed to roam. She chills nicely in her crate).

In my wildest dreams I would love another DS - or a mix. I'm interested in one with low/mid drive like my girl, but am being urged to wait (by the SO). I just can't foresee a time when I move out of the city and have a lot of land. I think I'm just frustrated and should chill out. I was just convinced to turn down an amazing dog - and I'm bummed out.

well, I will only speak against getting a DS when It screams to me that the person should not get one. But the bottom like is its up to you. We will give our advice and opinion, but then you can make the decision.

Now that I read they will be home 8-9 hours, I would say no. Dont get a full DS. You are getting away with it because she is a mix. Over all DS's are higher drive, this breed is bred to work...ALL DAY. They are out with the herd, all day, watching, protecting. Same thing with police, watching , protecting, chasing bad guys,, protecting its human.

I am all for two dogs, but if you must leave them home for a long stretch, I would advise against a ds.

We're in a relatively large condo (1000 sqft) and condo living with a DS can be done and done well. BUT you have to be dedicated as you mentioned. That being said I only have one dog and don't think I'd go for a 2nd unless I was in a house with a yard.

Also we do leave our guy for 8-9 hrs at a time but its very infrequent. I'd say MAX one day a week but usually not at all. If it's got to be more than that we board him. You said you do have a dog walker for some occasions which is also an option.

Ultimately your choice but as you know a full DS is a big commitment.

id also advise not getting a DS if you do decide to get a second dog.
ive been with demon 24/7 (hes slowly driving me insane) and sleeping on the couch with him since thursday due to him getting neutered, if you ended up with a run of the mill DS like him youd have no apartment left to come home to. hes stuck to my hip so the wallpaper stays on the walls and the couch doesnt get turned into a snowglobe (hes tried more times than i can count)
is demon house trained? yes, he hasnt had a single accident since he came home from the vet and sleeps all through the night.
is he a house dog? oh HELL NO. count your blessings that you have such an easy job with the ds mix you have, i dont think youd ever have the same luck twice, definitely not with a full DS.

i envy that what you have is working so well the way it is. the number one worry keeping me up at night is that due to rapidly changing circumstances ill very likely be emigrating in the future, and i know demon cant cope in an apartment (or anywhere near a busy street for that matter).

Two dogs are great, but two DS... I would give a serious pause and serious thought. What if they don't like the sports you are currently doing and need a new sport? Do you have time to walk them separately if needed instead of together? Enough funds for two emergency dog funds? That's also another dog you have to commit the same if not more training to. Are their enough hours in the day? Yes, to a degree they will play with each other, but like kids they also always want mom or dad's attention more often than each other's. In a smaller condo, that's also two large dogs playing which can take up quite a lot of room. Think of it like having two toddlers - could you spend enough time, energy, money, and training on two toddlers needed the same amount that you're currently doing?

I personally want two dogs and agree having two dogs is great and beneficial with the right match. However, I also won't do it in a small place. My last place was way too small for two 60 lbs dogs. That being said, maybe a smaller and more low key dog would work? I'm not in your shoes so can't say for sure, but take everything you do with your dog and multiply by 2 - food, time, bills - and then think of every worst case scenario you can with two dogs, using the exact same energy level as your current one. Write it down, plug it into excel, run the numbers - don't do it all in your head. If anything, in a smaller condo, I would wait unless you get a 15 lbs couch dog... but that's me.

I have two ds's and I do not recommend it unless you are a very experienced with a full ds. Sadie is a handfull herself. But i have a huge yard for them to go out whenenver they want and they make laps around the house, and sadie is VERY needy.

Oh,multiply the fur by5

Glad to hear a bunch of opinions on this! I had been researching good daycare options or hiking options for when I'm gone at work - but then I was admonished that "if you're looking into daycare before getting a new dog you obviously don't have time for it."

Thanks for opinions - I did get lucky with my girl, she's weird when we have TOO much space. I guess that comes from living in tiny places her whole life. I will consider mixes when I decide to consider it. Good to know that a full work day gone is a MUCH bigger problem than living in a small space!

And FIVE TIMES THE FUR? Just, no. Hahahahah.

wahinelf wrote: but then I was admonished that "if you're looking into daycare before getting a new dog you obviously don't have time for it."

This is true but depending on the dog. Many humans get dogs or certain breeds because of human wants and needs, they dont consider what the breed is about and what is involved, they want the dog and thats that. then the dog suffers.

DS really bond to thier human, many may not mind going to day care. I did that with Thalie a few times, or boarding, but it really stresses them to be away from their human.

You are doing your due diligence and looking into what a dog wants and needs, thats a good thing.

I have two crazies only because of my life style . But I am at the point to realize that my next dog will probably not be a DS because my life style will be changing so I will need a breed to fit into that [ basset hound!]

Its good to look into your life as it is now, but also, what will it be like years from now. Mabye get a small dog now, if you really want two. Or just wait until the time is right and it would be fair to get a DS.

But still remember that a pure DS is a real hand full, nothing like a mix that has been watered down. They need to work ALL DAY or your house will be shredded.

There's another additional challenge with a full DS that no one has mentioned yet but that has happened to us...

Logan has been fired from both daycare and from his dog walker. Daycare complained he refused to sleep and would get annoyed by the other dogs that didn't want to play the entire time. Dog walker said she already gets enough criticism at the dog park for being there as a dog walker and that Logan didn't help since he's such a dominant dog (full DS).

I think the daycare complaint is out to lunch - I mean we were paying for the exercise component. But this is the reality with a full DS. They make people nervous and people are not used to how demanding this type of dog is. So it becomes VERY difficult to find pet services that can handle these dogs. Fortunately for us I work from home so this is less of an issue. But it is a challenge from time to time even working from home.

So be warned...

just to add to what DanLu5 said another factor could also be aggression to strangers, which is also much more likely in a full DS and would hinder the options of dog walkers and daycare.
i wouldnt risk either with demon. if im not the one on the end of the lead theres a 90% chance hes going to get overwhelmed and turn on them. he loves my mum to pieces and i wont even let her take the lead alone with him just incase(shed be too nervous about it anyway).
just something else to keep in mind whatever you end up deciding it do, best of luck:)

DanLu5 wrote:There's another additional challenge with a full DS that no one has mentioned yet but that has happened to us...

Logan has been fired from both daycare and from his dog walker. Daycare complained he refused to sleep and would get annoyed by the other dogs that didn't want to play the entire time. Dog walker said she already gets enough criticism at the dog park for being there as a dog walker and that Logan didn't help since he's such a dominant dog (full DS).

I think the daycare complaint is out to lunch - I mean we were paying for the exercise component. But this is the reality with a full DS. They make people nervous and people are not used to how demanding this type of dog is. So it becomes VERY difficult to find pet services that can handle these dogs. Fortunately for us I work from home so this is less of an issue. But it is a challenge from time to time even working from home.

So be warned...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OMG, this is so funny, because it is true !!!!!!! I tried a day care one time and with in an hour they called me to come get Sadie.

No one mentions it because we kind of already know most of the time it wont work so it slips our minds, and quite possibly because of too much

I only board and they can stay together, I tell them to just leave them alone, no extra play or taking them out. The place I board, they can go out into a large play area a few times a day, but all they have to do is open a gate for them to go in and out, no handling.

Dutchringgirl wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OMG, this is so funny, because it is true !!!!!!! I tried a day care one time and with in an hour they called me to come get Sadie.

No one mentions it because we kind of already know most of the time it wont work so it slips our minds, and quite possibly because of too much

CHEERS Dutchringgirl !!!

cordeliandemon wrote:just to add to what DanLu5 said another factor could also be aggression to strangers, which is also much more likely in a full DS and would hinder the options of dog walkers and daycare.
i wouldnt risk either with demon. if im not the one on the end of the lead theres a 90% chance hes going to get overwhelmed and turn on them. he loves my mum to pieces and i wont even let her take the lead alone with him just incase(shed be too nervous about it anyway).
just something else to keep in mind whatever you end up deciding it do, best of luck:)

Also this is so true - completely agree and exactly my approach as well. They're just too intense a dog for an unsuspecting or suspecting newbie. Definitely not worth the risk!

At our training club last night another member asked me "is she always that...intense?"

Ellie was calmly staring at me - I don't even notice her constant stare anymore, I guess other people do.

Definitely taking the advice in. Thanks guys! I just have to imagine an un-watered down version of Ellie (I think only her drive was watered down - everything else was pretty spot on) and then I'll take more time to wait until I'm ready.

Thankfully I'm real anal about daycares and walker situations for her - absolutely no dog parks without me there and no constant play daycare (she gets stressy with what she considers too many dogs for too long). We're diving into rally/competition obedience to distract me from wanting another dog.

Oh, and she says hi. She also says "screw snow, throw the ball again."