Dutch Shepherd Forum

The idea is to have a broader understanding of the equipment, its use, origin, and ups and downs. From time to time (I can't commit to a set schedule.), I will post an item and ask for comments.

Specifically, I am looking to answer these questions from the members of the forum:
What is it?
Where'd it come from?
Have you used it?
When's the best time, or what situations would you use it?
What are the positives?
What are the negatives?
Where's the best place to get it?

For this thread I am asking about tugs. My Radar loves his big orange ball, but nothing will get his attention faster than when I bring out a tug toy.



There is a ton of video on training/playing tug with your dog. I like this one, because it teaches having a balance (instead of dominance) as well as incorporating training into the game.


Of course, I am not an expert, so I am interested in your opinion on the video as well as different ways of playing/training with a tug.

Karen Pryor has a page that shows step by step instructions for getting started with tug and clicker training:
http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1355

And, here's a couple sites to purchase tug toys:
Leerburg
EliteK9

Some of the questions to answer...
There's a ton of different varieties, ropes, bags, pillows, bite bars, so is it just a matter of which one the dog is more interested in, or are the specific applications for some of these varieties?

What about material? Are you partial to leather or synthetic, rope, jute, or something else?

What about tethering? Is there a commercial model that will withstand DS play, and do you believe there's any value in them?

And finally, the million dollar question: How many of you have had the web between your thumb and pointer finger pierced while playing tug, and is there a secret for preventing this?

Thanks!! Love the video and love elitek9. Lexi has a couple tugs and balls on ropes on the way now!

I'll skip right to the last part because I noticed something this morning while exercising Endeavor. When she comes in to grip the tug, I realized I was moving it away from her. I'm sure this is a reflex...a flinch on my part. I think it might be conditioning her to always move closer to my hand to bite the tug. No doubt, I developed the flinch from her making contact to begin with, but her old handler could have had the same flinch. When I use the ring tug(I'll post on it tomorrow), she bites very deep, trying to get closer to the part I'm holding. I wonder if she prefers to bite the tug where it is firmer-closer to my white knuckled fingers.

Good video posted above.
Still hoping someone will answer if there is one tug they prefer over another.

I've had good experience with the bite suit material tugs from Ray Allen.

Thank you.

So. Much. Info. On. Tugs.

So... Selecting a tug for your dog depends a lot on personality, tug duration, goal of the tug session, dog bite dynamics, and dog background.

Synthetic/suit material - most common. Can be bitten through but generally very durable.
Jute - second most common. Slightly easier to get holes in from bites.
Leather - much stronger than synthetic or jute and harder to puncture. Gets slippery when wet.
Firehose - much harder to puncture than leather and synthetic. Very slippery when wet.

Size. Size does matter. For pups I like to use a very long, wide, and soft tug to encourage a deep grip. For older dogs I like a harder dog tug. Some dogs prefer a long thin flat tug, others a rolled tug (considerably harder), some a wedge, some a small square... If you want to encourage a full deep bite, I personally like wider tugs that are shorter (so more square shaped) so they don't fold in the middle. Dogs who bite a longer, thinner, flat tug tend to either hold it in the back of their mouth or in their front.

As far as some of the tugs labeled "bite builders" they're basically very hard tugs. Ideally the hard tug makes the dog bite harder to get the sensory feedback of the tug compressing, which would transfer to the sleeve.

Handles are also a personal preference. One handle, two, none... I tend to go with no handles until the pup can target correctly. If I'm doing OB and swinging the tug with one hand for the reward, I prefer one handed tugs just to eliminate the dog grabbing the other handle. It does alter how I play but my dogs don't seem to mind. And the two handled tug, always a good choice. If the dog is chewing on the handle, spray with apple bitters or out every time the dog grabs the tug and heavily reward when the dog bites the actual tug. I also saw the other day someone was making tug with biothane handles.

As far as the game... it depends on what you want to do. I use tug to work on bite mechanics, build confidence, encourage handler focus, relieve stress, and have fun. I do encourage to keep the head level with the spine and no jerking the head for the safety of the dog.

ALM can make custom tugs, and Horton's K9 has quality tugs with low price points. K9 Vitamins also has a good selection of tugs as well. Tactical K9 also makes good tugs. And if you ever find Klein tugs, they are awesome tugs!

I personally swear by ALM - all around better quality and stands up to hard biters. I get a custom tug made for my crew.

I prefer the good old ball on a rope! I don't use tugs in obedience training

all of my tugs had bite suit material. Thalie would go ballistic at the mere site of the tug !!

Great Idea!

Lots of great info in this thread!

I've been learning a good bit about this subject in preparation for working with my pup once she gets done teething, she won't hold on to anything at the moment which is a bummer cause for her tugs even more fun than ball and ball is like crack for her LOL.

Can't wait to try out all of the strategies mentioned in here.

Tennessee3 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:52 pm Great Idea!

Lots of great info in this thread!

I've been learning a good bit about this subject in preparation for working with my pup once she gets done teething, she won't hold on to anything at the moment which is a bummer cause for her tugs even more fun than ball and ball is like crack for her LOL.

Can't wait to try out all of the strategies mentioned in here.

Get a leather puppy bite rag - thats what I did when I realized my dog was too little for the hard ones. She goes nuts for it.

You could even say it helps with teething lol, she definitely ripped a couple out while playing tug- the thing looks like it came out of a horror film now spattered with blood and all.

It's never a good idea to play tug while teething!!! That's how you create issues... if it hurts it could ruin any bitework or tug play for the future

be careful when teething, any pain associated with biting could back the dog off for future work. It does not take much to ruin a good bite. I have seen that many times and you can never get it back.

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:24 pm be careful when teething, any pain associated with biting could back the dog off for future work. It does not take much to ruin a good bite. I have seen that many times and you can never get it back.

I wish we'd caught Kapena's teething issues early enough but didn't. We stopped and took all the tuggies away as soon as we noticed. He did still want to catch and play and showed no aversion to mouthing and tugging on his regular fetch toys which is how we noticed it. A couple rounds of fetch and he was bleeding but insisting on more. I hope this didnt make him lose his bite! We're getting a bite work test soon and then we'll know! *Crosses fingers*

Steve Gossmeyer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:51 pm It's never a good idea to play tug while teething!!! That's how you create issues... if it hurts it could ruin any bitework or tug play for the future

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:24 pm be careful when teething, any pain associated with biting could back the dog off for future work. It does not take much to ruin a good bite. I have seen that many times and you can never get it back.

I don't know if these were actually directed at me, but yeah... I have zero interest in pushing the issue, I don't want a mental association with bite / tug = pain.

Tennessee3 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:12 pm

Steve Gossmeyer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:51 pm It's never a good idea to play tug while teething!!! That's how you create issues... if it hurts it could ruin any bitework or tug play for the future

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:24 pm be careful when teething, any pain associated with biting could back the dog off for future work. It does not take much to ruin a good bite. I have seen that many times and you can never get it back.

I don't know if these were actually directed at me, but yeah... I have zero interest in pushing the issue, I don't want a mental association with bite / tug = pain.

Nope! Someone made a comment on how cool it was their dog was bleeding on the bite rag

Steve Gossmeyer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:08 pm

Tennessee3 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:12 pm

Steve Gossmeyer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:51 pm It's never a good idea to play tug while teething!!! That's how you create issues... if it hurts it could ruin any bitework or tug play for the future

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:24 pm be careful when teething, any pain associated with biting could back the dog off for future work. It does not take much to ruin a good bite. I have seen that many times and you can never get it back.

I don't know if these were actually directed at me, but yeah... I have zero interest in pushing the issue, I don't want a mental association with bite / tug = pain.

Nope! Someone made a comment on how cool it was their dog was bleeding on the bite rag

I like it here too much to send the very uncouth response that popped into my head.

Tennessee3 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:54 pm

Steve Gossmeyer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:08 pm

Tennessee3 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:12 pm



I don't know if these were actually directed at me, but yeah... I have zero interest in pushing the issue, I don't want a mental association with bite / tug = pain.

Nope! Someone made a comment on how cool it was their dog was bleeding on the bite rag

I like it here too much to send the very uncouth response that popped into my head.

Lmao I can imagine after reading my comment again

Aight, I've got a question I don't think has been covered yet.

What is y'all's thought on the different types of tugs bite pillows, single & 2 handle jutes, bite wedges, knotted ropes, etc.

Thanks!

ETA dutchringgirl sort of covered it but I hope some more light can be shed on the subject.

Tennessee3 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:15 am Aight, I've got a question I don't think has been covered yet.

What is y'all's thought on the different types of tugs bite pillows, single & 2 handle jutes, bite wedges, knotted ropes, etc.

Thanks!

ETA dutchringgirl sort of covered it but I hope some more light can be shed on the subject.

I had a one handle tug, no reason, thats just what we had, it had bite suit material , because the dogs like the suit. We all had tugs, they were easy to put in the pocket of our training vets, and they would be in the left pocket right above the dog at heel, so they would look up at it. It was also easy to pull out of the vest when done as the reward.

It depends on what your doing too, I have some ball on ropes, knotted ropes too, the girls used to like to play tug of war for hours outside.