Dutch Shepherd Forum

I am going to share a tiny bit of Mustang's training here.

We had our first session (post-evaluation) yesterday, and upon our trainers advice, we are recording our sessions to share with her.

The first video is of my wife shaping place with him.

Before the critiques get too heavy, please know that even in cases that I don't agree (or think there's a better way), I plan to follow the trainer's methods and advice exactly (until or unless things don't work out ). Even still, I do appreciate any constructive comments or feedback.

The trainer is expensive, but she comes very highly recommended. I am relatively confident that she is going to help us make Mustang be the best possible dog he can be.

One thing I am currently at slight odds with, is the use of the multiple clicks versus a single click as the mark. In fact, I was originally planning to use a voice command as the mark in lieu of clicking. I don't think this one is a big deal, because I know the underlying concept of marking in any form is a proper training technique.

I am on the fence about using kibble in lieu of higher-value treats. As you can see in the video, Mustang is hesitant to be lured by what we're offering. Obviously, there's a little trust issue going on, but on the flip side, we are feeding him solely through training sessions to help him understand how important we are to him.

I see that he does not make eye contact and will not take the food from the hand ? What does the trainer say about that ?

We're working on his focus via a different exercise, and, with this being the possibly 1st day he ever have had any real training, we will be moving a little slow at the beginning.

He does take food from the hand, but he has a little trust issue when being "lured" by hand.

I get your questioning of the multiple clicks. The only reason I can think of is to get him used to hearing it... Which kind of is desensitization... Which is the opposite of marker training. Wait. Maybe the goal is to create a slightly prolonged mark, to help him pick it up? I'm not the trainer, and have no professional credentials. Just my thoughts. I'm sure she has a plan!

I notice he's not uncomfortable with her walking behind him.

I wonder if the seeming reluctance to take food from hand is not hesitation but purposeful waiting. If that waiting is purposeful on his part there is a kink in the dog logic somewhere

That's not the trainer in the video. That's my wife.

Again, he will take treats from the hand, but he hesitates or backs away if you try to lure him into a space.

His adoption bio says it took them a while to catch him. I'm guessing that luring with food was one way they tried, and so he probably has some trust issues.

Ok, so I wrote a whole long thing before the clarification of who is in the video.

I do understand the multiple click thing, we just use it a little differently. This sounds terrible, but we use tone on the ecollar for "clicks" when my son is giving commands (we didn't want her focusing away from him to the clicker). During the beginning stage we "clicked" a lot and timed the "clicks" to a treat/jackpots. The multiple clicks were supposed to front load the process, so that she knew what that click meant, even when divorced from input from the adult humans. As she caught on, and associated the behavior she completed with a positive-despite not getting a typical "good girl" from my son, we started phasing the number of clicks...and even phased reward as she understood what to do, and that this particular human didn't give praise.

The point of the multiple clicks is variable rewarding. Teaches your dog that they don’t get a reward every single time they do the correct behavior. However, in my opinion it’s too early to be doing that. The dog has to understand what the click means before you just start clicking all over and not giving treats for it. And I would definitely use some form of higher value reward than kibble. Maybe get some frozen Biljac from Walmart. Still has all the essential nutrients but it’s comes frozen and thaws out and has a nice scent that dogs seem to love like crack. Could also try some freeze dried raw rewards but those are pretty costly.

Never mind I’m sorry I commented without watching the video. Idk what that is that’s not variable rewarding. I wouldn’t do that. The dogs going to have a hard time associated those clicks with the reward. Just one click is fine.

My 2 cents..... I would not be clicking that many times. I feel that it dilutes the meaning of the mark.
I think he should be more active... I would play chase the food games - that would build engagement with you (your wife). You may have to use something else like cheese or meat but you keep moving (I moved backwards) an he chases to get the food. The place training would be similar, run with him to the place, throw food to reset, chase him to that thrown food then run back to place with him. I think you will see a positive difference if he is way more active...
I hope this makes sense and/or helps.

I'm with Patty ...BUT... Neither of us have interacted with him. I'm sure your trainer has a game plan.

I didn't mention that we started clicker charging last week. He has been thru many sessions of associating the clicker with reward - single clicks. Again, multiple clicks is new to me too, so it's one of the things I will clarify with the trainer on Friday.

TimL_168 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:11 pm I'm sure your trainer has a game plan.

I am too, so that's why I am not going to upend anything we're doing so far.

When we play tug he is easily lured with the tug. It might be an option, but he goes into moods where he doesn't want to play tug.

One thing I remember from training Radar was when the HVTs (High-value treats) were being slowly removed from the game, he was inconsistent with his behavior. I'm trying to avoid any of my past mistakes. Thus having a trainer and sticking to the plan.

I also appreciate the feedback too

By multiple clicks does that mean 2 clicks or 4 clicks ? It’s a lot easier for you and the dog if 2 is acceptable.

I would just ask the trainer. She may be doing this for a reason, kind of like with Bramble. We only used the multiple clicks when we changed what we were asking and because she wasn't going to get the "normal" feed back.

Btw Bramble says apples are the bestest treat in the world.

New session with the trainer today.

We added the legs to the place table, and he is improving on getting up on the table without luring/placing food on the table.

We're starting to incorporate the "Place" command now, as well as performing our focus training in new environments (Backyard and front-yard on a leash).

I asked about the multiple clicks, and the trainer said she simply felt it was a better mark than the single-click, and it has been very successful for her. It's 3-4 very rapid clicks, and my wife was kind of doing it wrong in the video above.

Here's a couple of pics from today's training.

Looks like he's doing great

Mustang training place right out of his crate.

I have to admit, that my clicking skills were horrible in this, but I want to blame it on an inferior clicker.

I also have to say I am proud of him focusing on his training with Leela trying to get in on the action.