Too tiny for Schutzhund?

[Travis]

I'm curious on everyone's opinion here. How small is "too small" for the physical pressures of Schutzhund and Ringsport?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to re-open the classic pocket rocket Malinois vs. 100 pound Rottie can of worms. But from a durability standpoint, is there a floor in terms of size, bone, "density" for a Schutzhund or Ring dog?

I've seen the photos of the novelty tiny Cattle Dog's doing Schutzhund work but would you look to take a very lightly built DS into the sport?

Admittedly I'm asking for very selfish reasons. lol Our recent DS addition has a lot of ball drive, endless energy, and a bit of fire to her. But, she is positively TINY at 43 pounds and about a year old. In pics of just her, it's not nearly so noticeable but in person you can tell she is very lightly built (think ballerina not gymnast).

Obviously weight isn't a really a deciding factor, but picture a 30 pound AmStaff compared to a 30 pound Sheltie being worked and you get the idea of what I mean by being lightly built.

I'm leaning towards it being one of those "if you have to ask" scenarios but thought I'd get some input here. My gut instinct is that she might like the work but would be too frail to be "driven" by a helper who wasn't specifically being careful with her. And I'd feel terrible if I tried to force one of our doggie family members into a sport she was unsuited and injury prone for.

Input would be welcome! (Keep in mind this is coming from a former Malinois guy so I'm all about believing in a pocket rocket's ability to work on the field)

[Christie M]

Hi Travis,

First of all, welcome to the forum. Please take a moment to visit the User Control Panel and create a signature that includes your name! Thanks!!

Personally, I think it is probably easier on the dog's body the smaller that they are. And the decoys/helpers love working them because they are fast and fun.

I personally have a 40#ish Dutch Shepherd as one of my competition dogs. She is going for her PDC (PSA - Protection Sports Association) in September and then will be switching over to Schutzhund. She also is training for flyball, agility and competition obedience. I just love working her and watching her flashiness. So my vote - she'll LOVE having the job!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTN5kTkdvME
Here's a Jack Russel doing some Schutzhund.

[Choochi]

You're talking about sport, not real life street work. Neither Sch or Ring counts on the dog bringing down the decoy so there is no real advantage for the bigger dogs. It's all about style and performing the exercises correctly. So smaller dogs are really at an advantage. Less stress on their bodies and joints, and they can usually out-manouver the bigger dogs and are faster.

There's nothing to loose to give it a try. Start training and see how she does I wouldn't discount her as frail that quickly, she is a DS after all.

[Dutchringgirl]

I did ring sport with my DS and Mal, my DS is on the smaller side too and was fantastic at it, she was faster than the big dogs, Ring is more about exactness, not the hit, although the men loved having the huge dogs that would give big hits and even take down the decoy. Ring is more about the sharpness of the out, and the correctness of the job, for the obedience, you have options of how high they can jump, but again a small agile dog will be able to do the big palisade no problem. I would defiantly go for it and have a good time.

[Travis]

Sorry about the sig issue. I thought I had it set up but just had it in the profile section. I think I've corrected it now.

Thanks for all the encouraging responses! The obedience phase doesn't worry me in terms of size and I definitely agree that the jumps would actually be less impactful.

Tracking obviously isn't a size concern.

I think I worry mainly about either the actual trial work when a helper "drives her" and getting thumped with the padded stick (I'm at least somewhat familiar with trial work and understand that the padded stick hits are intended to test courage not intended to damage the dog). Or accidentally stepped on, twisted up, etc. due to having less mass of her own.

My other concern would be imperfect helper work during training being potentially more damaging to her with inadvertently getting stepped on, jammed up, etc. Just general durability of a very lightly built dog compared to a "bowling ball" style of small dog build. I'm not certain she could actually carry a reward sleeve off and would end up dragging it away after it was released (cumulative wear and tear from this not outright injury?)

The posts of those here with dogs in the 40's doing and enjoying the work though are pretty convincing. Too many years of dealing with human athletes and sports injuries caused by like tendonitis, popped ribs, and the like caused by cumulative damage might very well have me over-thinking this as well.

I'm starting to think I should check out a couple more of the local Ring and Schutzhund clubs while she settles into our home and see if she enjoys the work.

[icvanstra]

quick response .. and I admit I have not read the full thread.

I am going to answer the initial question of how young...

...

From what I found with the local Schutzhund clubs:

- the day you bring the dog home is the day you start schutzhund.
- If you found a great club, that means they will nurture and adore and work with the puppy to help it grow. They will also accept you and nurture you and work with you to help you grow.
- if you found the wrong club ... well ... you can hopefully recover.

...

I live in the "shadow" of some hardcore world competitors and unfortunately they are not very nurturing.

I did bring home a phenomenal dog that loves to work and is accepting of me and my faults.

...

When I was working Cino in Schutzhund everyone was amazed how a 45 pound "Dutchie" could have the power that he has.

You would not believe how many times I heard the club trainer say "it's just a dutchie" to everyone around and then have the rest of the club tell me "WOW."

I stopped working Cino because of personal/family issues...not because of his work ethics!

[Christie M]

I'm not certain she could actually carry a reward sleeve off and would end up dragging it away after it was released (cumulative wear and tear from this not outright injury?)

I'll try to get a picture - but Salix would be devastated to leave a field without it. She actually has a muscle condition that has diminished the strength in her head muscles devastatingly. But her drive and determination is high. She would be considerable more miserable not working than otherwise.....

[Dutchringgirl]

I have trialed with many good decoys, even though they are supposed to work each dog exactly the same, whey a lighter dog comes at them they dont work the dog the same as a heavy dog. A heavy dog they will work harder, hit harder with the stick but wont with a light dog. With Thalie they were alot more gentle than with a 90 lb male.