Dutch Shepherd Forum

The last several years have lead me to learn more and more about aggressions. For every opinion, there's a couple of others who disagree and those who disagree with them. Here me out on this--and I really would like to hear what DSF members have to say. (I have a lot thoughts, but will try to scale them down.)

1) I think that the reason behind a dog's aggression(s) is important albeit it the ideal. I think that it's important because if you know (or figure it out), then you stand less of a chance of elevating/worsening it.
(For instance, pain-illicited aggression--perhaps a result of painful medical procedures that leaves the dog fear-aggressive under certain situations or with certain visual cues.)

2) Some believe that some high-prey dogs with inappropriate aggression(s)--for instance, territorial aggression--may never be "normal" even with training, though their behavior can be modified to one degree or another.

3) Some opinions strictly subscribe to any aggression, regardless of type or reason, as being a result of lack of strong leadership while other opinions are staunch in the belief that some dogs, even with strong leadership, cannot overcome some aggressions regardless of type of training, methods used to correct, etc.

4) And then there's the methods...some schools of thought which apply the same method(s) to any dog/any aggression while some theories state that it depends upon the dog.

So, what do you think?

Good topic. ...but not something that I have put much thought into before.

Not that im some super trainer or anything, but I think the dogs personality that he came out with ( I believe that creatures are born with an existing personality) can play a factor if his aggression can be retrained out of him if a circumstance created a more aggressive dog, been beaten, pain, etc. I do believe that any dog can become aggressive with training, or lack of, but his personality and predisposition would create a certain degree of aggression. I dont know if I can compare horses to dogs since one is prey and one is hunter, but I have seen many horses act aggressive because of lack of discipline, and some become less aggressive with training and love. I really believe it is a case by case study to an aggressive dog.

I don't know where you are going with the question. Not only is it an individual thing, related to the dog at hand, but also a subjective label. What is aggressive for my 80 year old neighbor, might not even be noticed (as aggression ) by myself. I think there are too many variables to have an intelligent discussion about it. You would get a list "IF A. applies, then you can try B, C D. IF B. applies, you should avoid E or F, but..." etc.
Approach of aggression depends on the cause, yes. But also on the make up of the individual dog. There is no 'one size fits all' and I am not even sure if there is a 'one size fits most'.

Intelligent discussions aren't possible when variables are present? Without variables put on discussion tables, it would seem discussions would be flat, stagnant.

I was asking for opinions on the varied and often contradictory theories of aggressions that are taught and in print, many of which that don't take variables into account--they are blanket because they can't take the variables into account. Some DSF members have experience with aggressions, and therefore, opinions (and opinions on opinions). For example, someone could've agreed that ALL types of aggressions, regardless of known or unknown variables, CAN be irradicated in any dog. They would simply be agreeing with a theory...having, I would assume, a history of personal experience/examples and variables that showcase their belief.

Bottom-line is: there has been some feedback in the form of opinions, so all's good.

mmmh, it's a bit too complicated for me, I'm not sure what you are asking
All I can say about agression, that it is different in every dog Ive met. The first dog that bit me ( ) was one that was so fearfull, and bit me in a panic, trying to "survive". It was a tiny dog, and I remember I just kept putting my hand back (had to bring the dog to it's kennel) getting bit several times, I couldn't care less (tiny mouth and it was not mean, just panic)
The second time I got bit was also in a panic, but different, bigger dog, other type of panic "I'm losing my status-panic". It hurt way more, and it pissed me off, I reacted differently from that first dog, because the intentions where different
The third (and so far last time...) was a puppy, in a small kennel at a show. I knew the owner and she told me to go and look at her new pup. I did, it wagged it's tail, I petted the dog on the skull, than suddenly a very convincing bite, not letting go at all. It was diffent to the hundreds of little puppie bites I had gotten before, this was an "attack"

So agression comes in many forms I guess, with confidence, out of fear, combined with the different types of dogs, thousands of possibilities!
The only one I find hard to deal with, is the unexpected one, the one with no signs, those of a "mentally ill" dog. A normal dogs shows tons of signs, if they don't, I don't like it... All others you can work with

Also, I never take anything written down too serious, unless it was written by someone who actually succesfully achieved something with the theories he/she writes down.

What happened to the unprovoked biter, Marjolein? (I don't need to tell you that that is worrisome, coming from a pup)

It lives...

Raven wrote:Intelligent discussions aren't possible when variables are present? Without variables put on discussion tables, it would seem discussions would be flat, stagnant.

Whatever. To me, it is like asking if you can win the Indy 500.
And my answer would be, that that would depend.........

Marjolein wrote:It lives...

Sounds a whole lot like the nature -vs- nurture and they haven't solved that one yet....

But I think that sometimes a dog can learn not to react to its natural aggression and can mostly re-learn not to be aggressive when it was a nurture (or torture) situation.

I believe that all of us, canine or human come into the world with a personality and that life tampers with it... good and bad.

Lauren wrote:
I believe that all of us, canine or human come into the world with a personality and that life tampers with it... good and bad.

thats why I believe in Nature AND Nurture. One animal in different hands can go down many different paths in life.

I got exactly what I was asking...opinions...and they happen to coincide with mine--that there is not any blanket or universal "formula" (neither for cause nor treatment) because there are so many different factors (variables) that come into play.