Parasites

[icvanstra]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH

for the third time in three years Cino has tested positive for Giardia. Abigail has tested positive for roundworm and hookworm in the last 10 months.

History... The price of buying the HeartGard Plus from the vet was way too much compared to what CanadaVet charged. Additionally someone "in the know" told me that the manufacturers recommended dosing rate was too often and I could stretch it out some. So, I bought it from Canada and stretched dosing it from every month to something like every 35 days. By Canadian/Australian weight standards/dosing guideline Abigail is at the top of the dosage limit...by the American drug dosing standard she would be at the bottom of the next dose... I have chosen to go with the lower dose.

A year ago I started buying Heartgard Plus from my vet and dosing monthly...because of the issues and because they had dropped their price so much...I am Dutch.

Very late last fall Abigail tested positive for round worm ( and was vomiting/shitting the "spaghetti"). Talking to the vet we are pretty sure she got 'infected' while out at my buddies place while dear hunting and it was not long after I switch to buying from the Vet and increasing the dosing interval.

Last years annual and one of Cino's puppy exams he tested positive for Giardia. Now today the vet tells me he is positive again for Giardia...

...

so, what am I doing wrong that I have been hit by Giardia three times in three years and by worms twice in one year???

I police the yard just as much as I did before, I stop the dogs from eating random crap when out for walks, they aren't showing diarrhea/vomiting/weight loss (other than Abigail during the roundworm issue)....

...

Anyone have suggestions? Any thoughts on how to prevent the Giardia and worms?

The dogs go to a LOT of places with me. Ultimately, I'm not going to isolate them to the point they can't go anywhere...Why have a dog then?!?!? It's all fair game...Plumps Last Shot, Rusted Moon, Moe and Johnnie's, the barber shop, the bank, Indy CD & Vinyl, friends, siblings...for the most part where I go the dog's get to go. To the point that I have modified my life to places that are dog friendly

Thanks,
eric

[syzygy]

Probably nothing you are doing wrong. Giardia is probably never totally eliminated since no treatment is 100% effective against the protozoa. There is some evidence that the common meds such as fenbendazole and metronidazole just eliminate the cysts from the feces but not the giardia in the intestines. A lot of dogs carry some giardia protozoa all the time so it looks like you are getting an occasional bloom. It is hard to eliminate in the environment too--and it likes cool and wet. Lysol and bleach are both pretty effective. I have the feeling that maybe some immune system dip or stress is allowing the roundworms--and maybe the giardia--to just pop up now and then. You have mice? Small rodents are the main vector of roundworms. I bet you are just getting reinfected periodically. A lot of wormers kill roundworms, including Ivermectin, but a repeat dosage in 2 to 4 weeks is usually a good idea and the eggs can remain infective in the soil for years. 20% bleach is helpful if you can't remove infected soil. Once your dogs have pooped in your yard, unfortunately--it's there for a long time. And you can even bring both these things in on your shoes.

Ellisa

[vneerland]

See above post.
I found this link
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/giardia.html
and what comes to mind when reading the diagnosis paragraph, is that the tests are not always easy to perform? I have seen dogs that were treated for HW, test positive AFTER they received their treatment (and were no longer positive) Could one certainly exclude a false positive?

[Christie M]

Am I the one who told you that you could stretch it?

As far as heartworm prevention, you certainly can. The medications kill of the microfilaria that they have been exposed to in the previous 45 days (roughly). As far as intestinals, the CDC recommends deworming 4 times a year....so you are well within that guideline.

Are you sure that the dogs are/were actually ingesting the medication and keeping it down? I use a combination of Ivermectin and Pyrantal, with great success for all 15-20 dogs that end up living here. I also have a great influx of parasites every time a new rescue comes to stay, but the other dogs don't seem to become infected with our protocol. I do confirm that with periodic fecals.

Giardia is a whole different mess. But my question is - are you testing them routinely or are they symptomatic? If they are not showing issues, but test positive, I don't know that I would treat. It is such a prevalent problem and spread through water sources. They are probably exposed every time you walk them on the trail. Honestly, the same thing is true with the intestinal parasites. Abigail may have been exposed at your friends, but she is probably exposed routinely on your walks.

Is it possible that they just don't have the healthiest gut flora right now and therefore the giardia is able to take ahold? Maybe add some probiotics for a whole and see if that builds up their resistance.

[icvanstra]

Am I the one who told you that you could stretch it?

Well yes ... but I didn't want to say that publicly without your knowledge. I had stretched it and after the problem with the roundworms I had shortened it, some...

Are you sure that the dogs are/were actually ingesting the medication and keeping it down? I use a combination of Ivermectin and Pyrantal, with great success for all 15-20 dogs that end up living here. I also have a great influx of parasites every time a new rescue comes to stay, but the other dogs don't seem to become infected with our protocol. I do confirm that with periodic fecals.

Yep. Abigail is so food crazy it is gone superfast. For Cino I have to break it in half and then follow him around to make sure he doesn't drop it...then give him the other 1/2. For him it's better if I smear some peanut butter on it.

Giardia is a whole different mess. But my question is - are you testing them routinely or are they symptomatic? If they are not showing issues, but test positive, I don't know that I would treat. It is such a prevalent problem and spread through water sources. They are probably exposed every time you walk them on the trail. Honestly, the same thing is true with the intestinal parasites. Abigail may have been exposed at your friends, but she is probably exposed routinely on your walks.

Is it possible that they just don't have the healthiest gut flora right now and therefore the giardia is able to take ahold? Maybe add some probiotics for a whole and see if that builds up their resistance.

It was their annual checkup. They have not been showing symptoms.

both of them go pretty much everywhere with me and there are dozens and dozens of dogs that walk through my yard every day.

[turnnburn52984]

Giardia is a nasty little bugger. My DS has intermittent chronic diarrhea. He does carry the giardia protozoa, and with any stress it'll get up out of control again. remember to watch for standing water. I live in NW Washington, and it rains, A LOT. Any puddle, wet grass, mud, it can all be a source of giardia. Metronidazole/Flagyl is the normal treatment, but Panacur is sometimes more effective. With some dogs that have a bad case it can take more then the normal 10 day dosage.

If they are non-symptomatic, I would not be overly concerned with it. The minute you see soft stools (especially with mucous), or weight loss, give a call to your vet and ask for metronidazole or panacur!

It sucks. I know. If you can get a Rx for Panacur/Safeguard/Fenebndazole, it's often cheaper through mail order equine catalogs. Common dewormer for horses.