How much to feed?

[pdlucky]

Ok so when I got Remington he looked a little skinny but I know the Dutchies are supposed to be kept lean but when I got him a few weeks ago he weighed 60 lbs when I took him in for a checkup. The original owner had been feeding him Bentiful his whole life and I believe that is why his ears don't stand up. Any how I have now switched him over to Nutro (we have used it for years with our lab/pit mix) and I have been giving him regular daily exercise and when I took him in to get his rabies shot I stood him on the scale and he has dropped 4 pounds. So according to the bag of food he is supposed to bet if moderately active he should be getting a max of 4 1/3 cups of something close to that. Now I have been giving him 2 cups morning and night plus he gets some training treats everyday while we work on obedience. So I guess my question is What is the best way to tell how much food I should be giving him? Typically I take him to the dog park everyday and let him run chasing his ball and playing with the other dogs and then I give him a walk in the evening so we can keep working on our leash training (he is doing great with it). It seems to me that since he has been on better food and getting his exercise in he has mellowed out a bunch.

Remington is almost 17 months old now and 56 lbs. Everything I have read if I remember correctly then he should end up under 70 lbs when fully filled out. He seems pretty narrow in the chest so I know he has more filling out to do. As for his ribs I can not see them but can feel them quite easily when I rub his sides. His stomach is way tucked up.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. I will try to get some more pictures of him tonight while he is standing. I wanted to post them in the conformation section anyhow.

[Christie M]

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Remington is almost 17 months old now and 56 lbs. Everything I have read if I remember correctly then he should end up under 70 lbs when fully filled out. He seems pretty narrow in the chest so I know he has more filling out to do. As for his ribs I can not see them but can feel them quite easily when I rub his sides. His stomach is way tucked up.

Keeping an eye on his body condition is way more important than reading the bag. This sounds perfect, so I wouldn't change anything. If starts looking a little thin, increase a little bit. If he needs less calories as he ages, then back off a bit. But I wouldn't stress over the exacts.

[Dutchringgirl]

I dont pay any attention to the bag either, just the dog. Both of my girls are 50 - 52 lbs. I just watch their sides. Thalie gains and drops fast so I just feed according to her waist. Sadie has always been thin and narrow so I just go by if I can feel her ribs or not. I feed raw so I go by their weight to find out how much to eat. I wouldn't stress too much though.

[pdlucky]

Remington also inhales his food. I can fill his bowl and turn around and its gone. I doubt eating so fast is good for him so I bought the Kong Wobbler. It is the hard plastic kong that you fill with food and they have to play with it to eat. That has helped a ton in the evenings for another energy reducer he plays with that and it takes him a good 30 minutes to eat and with the mental stimulation it gives him he is super relaxed when done. This is way better then eating in 2 minutes and then jumping all over the place wanting more or to go run.

[alexis]

Zane is another inhaler of food, and I'd second the recommendation for the wobbler. I rarely feed him his whole meal in it (because he gets a mix of kibble, canned and people food), but usually reserve some kibble to put in for his second breakfast (so he can have some fun after I leave for work). If he's extra lucky, sometimes he gets a piece of chicken (boneless but big enough to be challenging to get out) in his regular kong instead.

I've also found that the dog food bags recommend feeding more kibble than is necessary, and also just go by eye and how much exercise Zane has been getting.

[pdlucky]

So is that what most people suggest if I can see his ribs then I need to up his food and if I can't feel his ribs with light pressure then I should give him less food?

[alexis]

That's what I do. You should also be able to see a defined waist on your dog when you look at him from above.

[felixone123]

ditto that!!

[Christie M]

I stole this off of the Purina website. I know, I know....it is Purina. But this Body Condition Scale is what most vets rank based on. I like to keep my dogs in the 4-4.5 range, which means I like to see the last rib or two.

[pdlucky]

I would say Remington looks more like a 3 to 3.5 from the top as far as his waist is concerned. Remington has very large muscles in his back legs even the vet commented about how large they were so I wonder if he his maybe heavier than most due to how much he was ran as a pup and the development of his huge thighs. I wish I could find an experienced Dutch Shepherd owner near me that would be willing to meet up and let the dogs play while I pick their brain about many topics.

[Drizlaru]

I usually bite my tongue when it comes to food / weight issues because I have a very one track mind, and alot of people don't exactly see it my way. But, I'll give my opinion for what it's worth, and I'll try to explain my reasoning as well. I hope nobody takes offense, I realize not everyone can afford the best food.

I know that alot of you know this, it's for the people that don't know it. Look at your bag of dog food, and read off what the first 4-5 ingredients are. Those 4-5 ingredients make up probably 80-90% of what your food is made out of. If your looking at grains,rice, corn, or beet pulp those are all fillers (and reasons for allergies, don't get me started!). Your dog is getting so little nutritional value out of it, it's insignificant. A dogs digestive system is so short, it can't process plant matter. That's why dogs are carnivores, not herbivores, or even omnivores. People like giving their dogs fruit and vegetables, which is fine, but their system literally can't digest it. Seriously, what do you think dogs ate for 100's of years before we came up with lamb / peas / carrots in a can?

So your giving your dog all these fillers that they can't digest, and now there is a weight issue. Now you have to start feeding more to make up the difference so they can get what nutrition they need, and even then all your really doing is making him potty more. See where this is going?

Theres a reason why raw feeders don't have to feed their dogs very much (comparitively) every day, and why they don't poop as much as kibble fed dogs. The more nutritional value your dog can get out of his food, the better off he's going to be.

Now, I'll even go one further and offer a suggesion. Your not going to find a dry dog kibble without some type of vegetables or other plant stuff in it. However, you can find a dry kibble that gives them exactly what they need in generous quantity. http://orijen.ca/products Is it pricey? Yep, but I don't have to feed as much either, and they're getting a high quality diet, which in turn saves me money at the vet.

All JMO, but something to think about.

[pdlucky]

Thank you for your comments I will take a look at the Orijen and a couple other higher end foods and discuss the advantages with our vet. I appreciate everyones comments and for now I feel better about how he is looking. Raw is interesting to me but seems like a lot of work but I will do some reading about it and see if it would work for us.

[Dutchringgirl]

Raw is more work than just scooping kibble into a bowl, but I feel its worth it. It slows them down eating too, and I like that. I buy the meet at the grocery store and freeze it and cut it as I need to , so its not too bad as far as extra time, although if you asked the girls it seems like an eternity while im cutting it.

[alspyce]

Thank you for your comments I will take a look at the Orijen and a couple other higher end foods and discuss the advantages with our vet. I appreciate everyones comments and for now I feel better about how he is looking. Raw is interesting to me but seems like a lot of work but I will do some reading about it and see if it would work for us.

Most Vets aren't going to reccomend Raw, because it's not what they were taught in school. (Most of the information they get in Vet school comes from the Pet Food Industry, who's basic interest is money.) Raw can be as much, or as little work as you choose to make it. Check out the Yahoo groups--lots of good info there.
Also look into dehydrated that you can add your own meat to. Honest Kitchen has a good selection at reasonable prices.

[Schlussdibusti]

Thank you for your comments I will take a look at the Orijen and a couple other higher end foods and discuss the advantages with our vet. I appreciate everyones comments and for now I feel better about how he is looking. Raw is interesting to me but seems like a lot of work but I will do some reading about it and see if it would work for us.

Most Vets aren't going to reccomend Raw, because it's not what they were taught in school. (Most of the information they get in Vet school comes from the Pet Food Industry, who's basic interest is money.) Raw can be as much, or as little work as you choose to make it. Check out the Yahoo groups--lots of good info there.
Also look into dehydrated that you can add your own meat to. Honest Kitchen has a good selection at reasonable prices.

Although the Honest Kitchen is a fantastic food, I don't like the fact that the grain is not cooked. For example when I fed the turkey/oats version (forgot the name) the oats came out undigested. When I cook them oats and mix with raw eggs, everything comes out digested. Some stuff can't be digested by dogs and needs to be broken down (pre-digested) by the cooking process.

Orijen, again a fantastic food judged by the ingredients, doesn't work for us. I needed a gas mask! I feed Wysong with some home cooked chicken/vegetable stew in the morning and raw in the evening, if something decent is on sale. Check out http://www.wysong.net. They have tons of info and they are around since 1979, they manufacture in the US in their own plant and Dr. Wysong does his own research and they sell human supplements too.

I recommend the following books on dog nutrition: Dr. Pitcairn, Juliette Baraicly-Levy and Dr. Nancy Volhard. They all have receipes with grains. Dr. Pitcairn argues against totally raw because of the toxin ladden meats in these days, i.e. lead in bones, etc. They also agree that only cats are true carnivores, dogs are omnivores.

I went full cycle premium kibble, home cooked, raw. I came to the conclusion variety is the key. My senior Lab is now 14 years, 1 month and 2 days. I must have done something right.

[alspyce]

"Although the Honest Kitchen is a fantastic food, I don't like the fact that the grain is not cooked. For example when I fed the turkey/oats version (forgot the name) the oats came out undigested."

I add some Braggs apple cider vinegar which has lots of enzymes that help with digestion. The only thing mine don't seem to digest real well are carrots when I give them the baby ones whole as treats. I too believe in variety for a long, healthy life. I've been blessed with long life spans here too. I change the protein source often.
Wendy Volhard also has a nutrition book, and a food she sells.

[Schlussdibusti]

Wendy Volhard also has a nutrition book, and a food she sells.

That's the one I meant, Wendy not Nancy, duh!

I fed her food, it's an AM and a PM, mixed with veggies/yoghurt in AM and raw meat PM. Worked great for my Labs, havent't tried it for Marco.

Just some of my own observations..........

When Marco finds a piece of rotten fish, i.e. "sun cured" in fresh air, saltwater, not rotten in a styro foam/celophan package from Publix, and eats it, there is no throwing up, diarrhia, constipation. Probably got a nice dose of chondroitin too. When he found a fresh caught pompano on the beach and I let him chew it up in peace, he threw it up a bit later. Go figure...

My GSD used to dig some pieces of his green tripe in mom's rose garden. Later he dug it up and ate it like a delicatesse.

Isn't this a sort of "processed" meat too and they seem to seek or create it on purpose. Juliette de Bareicly Levy recommends to dig a ditch and put the meat in there or hang it in a cotton bag on a tree. Well, in the days of home owner associations and such, this might not be feasable. But again, she seems to recommend to feed meat that has already "settled" and the cells beginning to break down .

[alspyce]

We always "hang" our deer a few days, and I never thought much about it. I freeze everything for quite awhile before feeding, then it thaws a few days, but the dogs never get to "bury" it.
Fish I usually buy already frozen and I've not had a problem feeding it.

Some of the "best" restaurants hang meat and let it get a bit "green" to tenderize it, and I've heard "blue veal" is the most tender. (Takes all kinds.)

[Dutchringgirl]

do you hang it before freezing? I have seen the hunters hang the deer but never thought about it.

[alspyce]

do you hang it before freezing? I have seen the hunters hang the deer but never thought about it.

We hang it for a few days before skinning and processing.(depending on temperature) It allows the meat to cool, and it's easier to get the hide off and cut up for washing and wrapping.