So apparently AKC is in the process of recognizing Dutchies

[Choochi]

yaayyyy

I have no idea how the process works but some of the dogs are now getting registered with the AKC as "foundation stock".

[Schlussdibusti]

not good

I wonder who started the process?

[Dutchringgirl]

nooooooooooooo

[Choochi]

not good

I wonder who started the process?

Who ever they are I don't like them very much right now. Bet you a pig's head it was one of the people who takes their Dutchies to conformation shows and selfishly wanted a bigger arena to show off their dogs, and yes I dare say so that more puppies can be sold. May you rot in hell for taking the first official step in publicly bastardizing this WORKING breed.

[Choochi]

Actually now that you've mentioned it I wonder if there is a way to find out who started this process with the AKC.

[Choochi]

I'm putting my thoughts on the Facebook group, look forward to Christines and Les' response as I respect them for what they do with their dogs/this breed. Now that the ball is rolling I'm guessing there will be a rush of working breeders to register to legitimize their dogs in light of this to the AKC crowd.

[Schlussdibusti]

Wasn't there just recently a heated discussion on this board about "some mix" winning a competition? This might shed some light on the source.

[Choochi]

Who started this? Looks like this:

From the AKC page http://www.akc.org/breeds/dutch_shepherd/index.cfm

Contact: Dutch Shepherd Club of North America, Carole Goetzelmann, Secretary, dscna_shorthair@hotmail.com
http://www.dscna.com

[Choochi]

Who started this? Looks like this:

From the AKC page http://www.akc.org/breeds/dutch_shepherd/index.cfm

Contact: Dutch Shepherd Club of North America, Carole Goetzelmann, Secretary, dscna_shorthair@hotmail.com
http://www.dscna.com

From their website's home page:
The mission of the DSCNA is to promote the awareness and knowledge of the three varieties of the purebred Dutch Shepherd dog in North America.
We welcome you to browse the DSCNA's web pages and learn about our Longhaired, Shorthaired, and Roughhaired Dutch Shepherd dogs as we cover the past, the present, and the future of the breed, both here and in its birth place, the Netherlands.

The DSCNA is the first Dutch Shepherd breed club in North America devoted to protecting and promoting our breed towards both AKC and FCI recognition.

We are pleased to annouce that the Dutch Shepherd was accepted into the
American Kennel Club's
Foundation Stock Service (FSS) program on April 8, 2012.

At present there are 54 Dutch Shepherds entered into the FSS database
from across the USA and Canada.

[Schlussdibusti]

great research and find!

And the AKC Dutchshepherd page already has a section "DS links" and one of them is "Puppies".

[Choochi]

ya exactly... at the top and bottom of the page in case you missed one.. drink up!

[Schlussdibusti]

Oh yes, on top it says "Information on AKC Dutch Shepherd Puppies". But they messed up the page it goes to. In the right lower portion it states "Information about Deutscher Wachtelhund"

[Christie M]

AKC recognition was only a matter of time. The breed is gaining in popularity, and a ton of that is by pet dog owners and some breed fanciests. Look at this forum and the increase in members. Its an example of more and more people wanting (and most appreciating) the breed we love.

A parent club was formed (it has been discussed on this forum, so its not new) and they applied for Foundation Stock status for the breed via AKC. The parent club is comprised mostly of people who value the structure and versatility of their dogs - but are not consumed with "working dogs" as many of us are. This doesn't make them wrong, per say, just different. The only thing that would be wrong would be if they stood in judgement of others who have a different vision for the breed.

Personally, I will never hold AKC responsible for the deterioration of any breed. Breed clubs create standards, and judges judge based on that standard. But in reality, I think this will just make things more clear. Some people will breed for the show ring, some people will breed for work, but in the end...anyone participating will atleast be breeding for something. And those things will be tangible.

Currently, I think the most damage being done to this breed is by hobbiests who think they have a remarkable dog and that there is a market for their offspring. It is often people who call themselves "working dog people" who produce crap, and reproduce crap because they have stripes. It is the person breeding because they want "a puppy" out of their dog with no thought of what will happen to the other 10. It is the people who think that because their dog has stripes, that people will crawl out of the woodwork to obtain a puppy. It is every cop who has ever called rescue to get any striped female to breed to their "awesome K9" because he is so good he will carry any litter. I believe that it is these folks that have flooded the market with non-working dogs in a way that the few (and I mean FEW) AKC people never could at this point. So I think trying to stick blame on the elitists is unfair. They are far too few in number to ruin the breed. And as I said, they breed for SOMETHING. Whether you agree with what that something is, is an independent decision. But they have an objective and goal in mind, unlike 90% of the rest of the dutch shepherd breeders out there.

I think that Les is registering his dogs, because why wouldn't he? He has FCI working dogs, and aside from Asheley, Judith and Christine, that is an exception and not the rule. Christine registered her dog, because again, why wouldn't she? Titan is FCI registered and had produced many working dogs in this country and overseas. I don't think that either of them plan to limit their breeding program to only AKC females because then they would certainly not be contributing to the working DS, and clearly they are both committed to that.

[MeganBays]

A couple of the positive aspects I see coming from any registration body and the dogs is access to more venues to compete/trial/train/work dogs in and limited registration (granted this is only as good as the person who is in contract with it) to help curb non health tested and worked dogs (that said not all of my breeding stock are certified/titled and none of them are currently registered). With as big as what our country is in the US, an added reputable trialing body is not a bad thing. I think it will be good to have more options for people who want to compete in things such as obedience and agility titles. I am at a minimum of 3 hours away to trial in type of sport, so I'll gladly welcome more opportunities.

As with anything some people will abuse this, but I also think some of the people who would be abusers are going to regardless of any registration status. It is up to the breeder's to place puppies in capable working homes, to stand behind their dogs, and be there for the new puppy owner's in whatever form of support they can. Of course there are limitations as to what you can and cannot do to help ensure your puppies go to successful homes, and not everyone is going to have a 100% success rate in placement if they continue to breed for long. That just isn't realistic.

Nicely put Christie, I agree with your thoughts regarding the subject.

[Schlussdibusti]

What show breeders have done to the German Shepherd breed over the past 30 years is apparent. The president of the Schaeferhund Verein (SV - German Shepherd breed club) was the brother of the biggest GS breeder in Germany. Guess who's dogs were most successfully in the breed club trials?

A gentleman who used to breed told me, he was so discusted about the fact that it is all about the money and not the breed, he stopped all together.

A gentleman who used to show told me that if you have enough money to pay the right handler you can get any dog titled.

Regulations should be changed to allow any healthy and capable dogs to participate in any sport they wish, no matter what club they are allowed to register with, not the other way around.

[Choochi]

Currently, I think the most damage being done to this breed is by hobbiests who think they have a remarkable dog and that there is a market for their offspring. It is often people who call themselves "working dog people" who produce crap, and reproduce crap because they have stripes. It is the person breeding because they want "a puppy" out of their dog with no thought of what will happen to the other 10. It is the people who think that because their dog has stripes, that people will crawl out of the woodwork to obtain a puppy. It is every cop who has ever called rescue to get any striped female to breed to their "awesome K9" because he is so good he will carry any litter. I believe that it is these folks that have flooded the market with non-working dogs in a way that the few (and I mean FEW) AKC people never could at this point. So I think trying to stick blame on the elitists is unfair. They are far too few in number to ruin the breed. And as I said, they breed for SOMETHING. Whether you agree with what that something is, is an independent decision. But they have an objective and goal in mind, unlike 90% of the rest of the dutch shepherd breeders out there.

AKC registration does nothing for that though. There are puppy mills out there selling AKC puppies. People will still breed for what they wanted as they did a month ago as they will a year from now. AKC recognition does in no way clarify what a breeder does. I think it's pretty clear right know who takes their dogs to shows, who participates in working venues, who just buys titled adults and breeds them, and who breeds any thing that has stripes and 4 legs. I'm not sure if you're suggesting that a breeder having their dogs AKC registered will some how be a signal of quality for the dumb puppy buyers incapable of doing home work. We all know how well that is exploited. And if any thing, this will further legitimize the non registered dogs and the "non-paper" segment of the breed who's selling point in some cases to some people is that being a part of a registry means dogs of lesser working quality (whether you want to believe it or not, AKC more then any of the other clubs has a stellar reputation for this).

[Choochi]

I know... I'm totally arguing a moot point. Like you said, this was completely inevitable with the breed's popularity rising. I just find this depressing. I really really hope this doesn't become another GSD. There already is a split in the breed with the various lines and types, which is very cool with me as I don't believe in the all in one super dog and think this is the only way to have dogs be truly excellent at certain tasks and purposes, but my worry is that this will further encourage the show ring branch to do nothing but shows and hyper focus on things like does the dog have 3 or 4 hairs at the top of their ear and is one of them a chocoate brown or a coffee brown... and then the conformation trends will start based on not function but people's personal visual preferences and who knows the show Dutchies will become Geckos.

I have no problem with people loving the same breed and having different interests, but I so with a passion hate what the show ring has done to countless working dogs. I find it disgusting to no end and it's not even about this being about the Dutchies but really any more working breeds being subjected to this. They might as well breed them just to kill them, stuff them, and parade them around inside little glass capsules. It makes things out of living animals, and yes I know people can say the exact same thing about "making" dogs work... I'm just gonna stop rambling now.

[Schlussdibusti]

May be a dog show should be redefined and judged by the purpose a dog is breed for, i.e. how well is a Husky pulling a sled, how well a shepherd can herd, protect, search, how well a hound can hunt, how well a Shitzu looks on a couch (sorry not picking on the breed - couldn't resist), how well a Dackel can dig holes to get the badger, etc..

I know, it's not possible but it would make more sense wouldn't it.

[MeganBays]

I know... I'm totally arguing a moot point. Like you said, this was completely inevitable with the breed's popularity rising. I just find this depressing. I really really hope this doesn't become another GSD. There already is a split in the breed with the various lines and types, which is very cool with me as I don't believe in the all in one super dog and think this is the only way to have dogs be truly excellent at certain tasks and purposes, but my worry is that this will further encourage the show ring branch to do nothing but shows and hyper focus on things like does the dog have 3 or 4 hairs at the top of their ear and is one of them a chocoate brown or a coffee brown... and then the conformation trends will start based on not function but people's personal visual preferences and who knows the show Dutchies will become Geckos.

When I think about this, I think about the Mals. There is an obvious difference in the AKC showlines and the pedigreed/nonpedigreed working lines, but I don't see either one trying to over take the other. Of course there are exceptions to this, but for the most part it seems like they leave each other well enough alone. While I'm not involved in Mals as much as I am the stripey counter parts, I do try to follow some of the things going on with them and have friends who are on the Mal side of the fence.

How do you think they'd like Maya at confirmation show, Marta? I do love our prissy girl

[Selena]

More chance with harley or your new addition