Facebook page.Hello, I am Trisha and new to the DS breed. I have been around many young DS's here in my town of Nosara Costa Rica, there is a breeder/trainer here, all of his dogs are strictly bred for protection, which is not at all what I am looking for. I see them behaving very well, I see kids and other dogs come up to them on the beach, they do not bite, or at least I have not seen them bite. I have heard of DS owners here, who have had their dogs growl at them, they are people who should probably never own a protection dog, due to most people do not understand they need to be the alpha in the relationship, whatever breed they own.
Just yesterday, found out one woman who owns 2 of them for protection dogs here (she was raped and robbed), had her young nephew attacked twice with no antagonistic behavior towards the dog, and the dog knew him for 2 weeks, the dog also had bit her. I am starting to get a little worried about a dog that could bite someone, and can be very destructive because it needs constant attention. I read about a dog here, it wanted to take over someone's sofa, was claiming it as his own, so he was growling at the owner when they leaned on him. I agreed with all of the advice from other owners, not to punish the dog because it was growling, as that is better than a straight bite. Is this typical behavior?
I want a smart dog, that likes to fetch, do agility work, is easily trained to be very obedient, as I take my dogs everywhere with me, including international travel. Being a single female, I do like a dog that has natural protectiveness of his owner and home. I have always been the alpha, either it be my horses or dogs, I have been training horses for 38 years, and every dog I have ever owned. Some people who make me crazy and let their animals run their household, have told me that I am too strict with my animals, as I do not treat train, I do not let them on furniture, they heal perfectly off leash, they take hand signals from far away, they are just really well behaved and trained, they want to please me, because I give them lots of love and never mistreat them. It would freak me out if I had a dog that bit me for no reason, other than it wanted to be the alpha. My dogs have always had several beds in the house, because that is where they lay down, not just anywhere they like, especially never on furniture. Can a DS growl at me if I get down near him on his beds, protecting his space from me? I understand this is a breed that is more specially bred for protection, not the herding dog it originally was bred to be, I see none of the herding training done in the US, having working cattle horses, I have been around herding dogs my entire life. I have also been around very high powered bird dogs, my father bred and showed English Springer Spaniel field trial dogs, starting back in the 1940's. These dogs where worked fetching everyday, it was enough for them, so they did not destroy everything they could get their teeth on.
I would sincerely appreciate straight talk here, as it is wonderful already that it looks like you are all straight talkers. I need to know if it is a normal behavior for DS's to growl and possibly bite an owner, because the dog wants to take over.
Thanks! Trisha
The more I read, gives me hesitation?
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Trisha
- Just Whelped
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:43 am
- Tell us about yourself: I am building a home in the jungle beach town of Nosara, Costa Rica. I came across the DS breed here, there is a breeder who trains police, military and home/office protection dogs. I have been looking for the right breed for my next dog for 2 years, I have come to like the breed very much. I like that the DS is a natural guard dog, but do not feel that this type of training fits in with my (home) California lifestyle, I would buy 2 fully trained protection dogs to live with me in CR, if I would live there full time. I have been training horses for 38 years, and personally trained all of the dogs I have ever had, I am excited to train my DS when I find the right puppy, it will be fun to have a dog that loves to learn all kinds of fun tricks and agility games, and loves to fetch. I travel a lot, and travel with my dog, besides having my dog with me almost everywhere I go, so I must have a dog that takes obedience training well, and likes a pack leader.
The more I read, gives me hesitation?
Trisha & Puma
Ventura Co. California
Playa Guiones, CR.
Ventura Co. California
Playa Guiones, CR.
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Schlussdibusti
- Working Dog
- Posts: 1040
- Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:25 pm
- Tell us about yourself: I adopted a DS
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
Here are my 
on the subject......
It depends on the line. Although a pedigree can not 100% predict how the puppy will turn out but it will leave some clues. Like off-springs of a well known German Shepherd are super in IPO and great as police K9 but are known to "travel up the leash".
Have you ever looked into a Chesapeake Bay Retriever? They are the toughest of the Retriever family, very hearty, very smart and not overbred.
on the subject......It depends on the line. Although a pedigree can not 100% predict how the puppy will turn out but it will leave some clues. Like off-springs of a well known German Shepherd are super in IPO and great as police K9 but are known to "travel up the leash".
Have you ever looked into a Chesapeake Bay Retriever? They are the toughest of the Retriever family, very hearty, very smart and not overbred.
Eva & Marco BH
Jupiter, Florida
Jupiter, Florida
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LyonsFamily
- Training Dog
- Posts: 947
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:08 am
- Tell us about yourself: Odin 5 years
Elli 5 years - Location: Michigan
- Contact:
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
Keep in mind this is the first time I've had good wifi on my computer in 2 months, so it's a bit lengthy...
I don't think the biting and growling at the owner is because the dog necessarily wants to "take over." There's a big difference in between resource guarding and trying to run the house. Like I said in the other post, growling is just communication. To me, there's nothing wrong with it. Odin hasn't growled at me or my husband in a very long time, because we've taken the time to study his behavior, correct our handling errors, clearly communicate to him through training and boundaries, and assure he's never set up for failure again. I do get some growls while I'm trimming his nails, so he gets muzzled and someone offers him treats through the basket muzzle. I can't not do his nails, so it's something he has to live with. I would say that's probably the only time I "flood" him with an unwanted behavior that has produced a defensively aggressive response. If it were up to him, he'd run in the other direction and not come out until the nail clippers were away. I could show dominance and put a prong on him and pop it every time he struggled like his foster mom did, but that never really taught him anything.
He growled at the dog bather at training the other day during a staged intro because he didn't like her. That's what I've asked of him though. He wasn't trying to take over the bathing room, he wanted her to get away from us.
I work Odin in herding. I'm getting a second DS soon as a foster (probably will end up adopting her if I don't find a different female) and she'll herd too although she is trained in French Ring and will probably continue in bite sports if I can find a decent club in Michigan. Odin only goose herds to get geese off property. I personally don't think many DS herd any more because it's not needed as much and also it's expensive. Most sheep herders around me use 4 wheelers to herd. I looked into getting him professionally trained until I found out how much it costs if he were to break one of their legs or do something else stupid during training. I have no need for a sheep herder, so I'm not going to put in that investment.
I don't like the concept of Alpha. Dogs need clear communication and a leader from us. A human acting like the head dog won't give the relationship what's needed. I think most people use the phrase Alpha incorrectly and have the general concept down, but there are plenty of ways to establish that leadership other than through dominance and making oneself the head of the dog pack. That's not to say that corrections shouldn't be given, but to look at a wild wolf pack and apply it completely to a human/domestic dog relationship is a bit of a stretch.
There's nothing wrong with treat training though and it doesn't mean that one is too soft or isn't strict, in fact, I find it to be the opposite. To withhold a resource (i.e. food) until the dog performs whatever task the owner wants gives the owner complete control and the ability to shape new behaviors and can create more respect and better communication from the dog. I can't tell you how many different things Odin has offered me during a free shaping lesson trying to get a meal. It's really quite fascinating to watch and I can clearly see how much of a leader I am because I control the resource. I'm not one of those trainers that plugs a dog with food in order to make it perform and I proof without treats, but I find them very helpful in the training process and I don't think a trainer that doesn't use treats at all is any better of a trainer or is more strict. That being said, there are other reinforcers that are better for certain dogs such as tugging or a ball. It's the same concept, it just depends on the dog.
For the particular situation you mentioned, 2 weeks is not enough time to know a dog, especially enough to let a young child around it uncontrolled. I was not there, but there were likely multiple signs of stress and warnings given by the dog that the owner missed. The fact that the dog bit the child twice was a serious handling error on someone's part. Having that dog wearing a drag line and managing it to not be within a short range of the child would have eliminated any injuries. Herding instincts can also lead to bites on small children and it may have nothing to do with being aggressive. It's hard to tell without being there.
Your dog is going to be what you make of it. If you don't want a protection dog, don't get one from those lines. Take your time and go to breeders, view their dogs, and find out about them. You're likely going to want an FCI dog since you're not looking for protection work. There are KNPV bred DS that will come up a leash at a handler, but those are bred for a specific task, not all are like that. The one that used to live by me in Chicago was a PPD and an IPO3 I believe and his owner was missing half of his ear. It didn't have anything to do with who was "alpha" that was just the specific breeding and training this dog had. His owner WANTED that dog and I think that's what most people miss. If he can manage it to stay away from other people and dogs, there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a protection dog like that. I wish I could remember his name, but he's very well known in ring sports around here and gives seminars quite frequently. He has a malinois that could probably be a therapy dog and will only bite a sleeve. There's nothing civil about her, it's all just a big game of tug.
Any dog will go through testing stages and fear periods. It is how they grow and establish boundaries. It is up to you to direct and redirect when problems arise. There is no problem free DS. There is no problem free dog. You have to be ready to get private lessons and outside opinions and you need to be willing to be flexible in training styles. You may not need outside help, but you have to be willing to consider that as an option. I think many of the people that have problems with this breed find that their own egos are too big to admit they don't know everything there is to know about dog training and behavior. Nobody does. You read about problems on here because people are getting help before they get in too deep and that's a good thing. Sometime in your life, one of your dogs will growl at you (even if they haven't already) and your response is going to dictate how the relationship continues. I don't think a DS is any more predispositioned to growl, but they are very intelligent and learn how to test boundaries pretty quickly.
Odin was the first dog that made me fall in love with clickers. Not to sound cliche, but they really clicked with him. I always thought they were annoying before. They're great for him and that's part of the reason for his success. I let him on certain furniture, but he knows which ones and he knows to ask first. He also knows that when I tell him to get off he better be in his xpen soon. Not because I beat him or act like an alpha dog, but because he respects my commands and knows that he will be rewarded at times with key resources like affection, food, tugging, fun times, and continued access to the furniture.
I don't think the biting and growling at the owner is because the dog necessarily wants to "take over." There's a big difference in between resource guarding and trying to run the house. Like I said in the other post, growling is just communication. To me, there's nothing wrong with it. Odin hasn't growled at me or my husband in a very long time, because we've taken the time to study his behavior, correct our handling errors, clearly communicate to him through training and boundaries, and assure he's never set up for failure again. I do get some growls while I'm trimming his nails, so he gets muzzled and someone offers him treats through the basket muzzle. I can't not do his nails, so it's something he has to live with. I would say that's probably the only time I "flood" him with an unwanted behavior that has produced a defensively aggressive response. If it were up to him, he'd run in the other direction and not come out until the nail clippers were away. I could show dominance and put a prong on him and pop it every time he struggled like his foster mom did, but that never really taught him anything.
He growled at the dog bather at training the other day during a staged intro because he didn't like her. That's what I've asked of him though. He wasn't trying to take over the bathing room, he wanted her to get away from us.
I work Odin in herding. I'm getting a second DS soon as a foster (probably will end up adopting her if I don't find a different female) and she'll herd too although she is trained in French Ring and will probably continue in bite sports if I can find a decent club in Michigan. Odin only goose herds to get geese off property. I personally don't think many DS herd any more because it's not needed as much and also it's expensive. Most sheep herders around me use 4 wheelers to herd. I looked into getting him professionally trained until I found out how much it costs if he were to break one of their legs or do something else stupid during training. I have no need for a sheep herder, so I'm not going to put in that investment.
I don't like the concept of Alpha. Dogs need clear communication and a leader from us. A human acting like the head dog won't give the relationship what's needed. I think most people use the phrase Alpha incorrectly and have the general concept down, but there are plenty of ways to establish that leadership other than through dominance and making oneself the head of the dog pack. That's not to say that corrections shouldn't be given, but to look at a wild wolf pack and apply it completely to a human/domestic dog relationship is a bit of a stretch.
There's nothing wrong with treat training though and it doesn't mean that one is too soft or isn't strict, in fact, I find it to be the opposite. To withhold a resource (i.e. food) until the dog performs whatever task the owner wants gives the owner complete control and the ability to shape new behaviors and can create more respect and better communication from the dog. I can't tell you how many different things Odin has offered me during a free shaping lesson trying to get a meal. It's really quite fascinating to watch and I can clearly see how much of a leader I am because I control the resource. I'm not one of those trainers that plugs a dog with food in order to make it perform and I proof without treats, but I find them very helpful in the training process and I don't think a trainer that doesn't use treats at all is any better of a trainer or is more strict. That being said, there are other reinforcers that are better for certain dogs such as tugging or a ball. It's the same concept, it just depends on the dog.
For the particular situation you mentioned, 2 weeks is not enough time to know a dog, especially enough to let a young child around it uncontrolled. I was not there, but there were likely multiple signs of stress and warnings given by the dog that the owner missed. The fact that the dog bit the child twice was a serious handling error on someone's part. Having that dog wearing a drag line and managing it to not be within a short range of the child would have eliminated any injuries. Herding instincts can also lead to bites on small children and it may have nothing to do with being aggressive. It's hard to tell without being there.
Your dog is going to be what you make of it. If you don't want a protection dog, don't get one from those lines. Take your time and go to breeders, view their dogs, and find out about them. You're likely going to want an FCI dog since you're not looking for protection work. There are KNPV bred DS that will come up a leash at a handler, but those are bred for a specific task, not all are like that. The one that used to live by me in Chicago was a PPD and an IPO3 I believe and his owner was missing half of his ear. It didn't have anything to do with who was "alpha" that was just the specific breeding and training this dog had. His owner WANTED that dog and I think that's what most people miss. If he can manage it to stay away from other people and dogs, there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a protection dog like that. I wish I could remember his name, but he's very well known in ring sports around here and gives seminars quite frequently. He has a malinois that could probably be a therapy dog and will only bite a sleeve. There's nothing civil about her, it's all just a big game of tug.
Any dog will go through testing stages and fear periods. It is how they grow and establish boundaries. It is up to you to direct and redirect when problems arise. There is no problem free DS. There is no problem free dog. You have to be ready to get private lessons and outside opinions and you need to be willing to be flexible in training styles. You may not need outside help, but you have to be willing to consider that as an option. I think many of the people that have problems with this breed find that their own egos are too big to admit they don't know everything there is to know about dog training and behavior. Nobody does. You read about problems on here because people are getting help before they get in too deep and that's a good thing. Sometime in your life, one of your dogs will growl at you (even if they haven't already) and your response is going to dictate how the relationship continues. I don't think a DS is any more predispositioned to growl, but they are very intelligent and learn how to test boundaries pretty quickly.
Odin was the first dog that made me fall in love with clickers. Not to sound cliche, but they really clicked with him. I always thought they were annoying before. They're great for him and that's part of the reason for his success. I let him on certain furniture, but he knows which ones and he knows to ask first. He also knows that when I tell him to get off he better be in his xpen soon. Not because I beat him or act like an alpha dog, but because he respects my commands and knows that he will be rewarded at times with key resources like affection, food, tugging, fun times, and continued access to the furniture.
Stephanie
'Odin' NV PTA Odin of Another Kingdom RL1
'Elli' Drawing Our Own Constellations RL1 CGC CGCA
'Odin' NV PTA Odin of Another Kingdom RL1
'Elli' Drawing Our Own Constellations RL1 CGC CGCA
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TexasMedy
- Puppy
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:27 am
- Tell us about yourself: Hello Everyone,
My wife and I live north of Houston in Spring, TX. We have 3 kids, age 17, 19 and 20. We have a Dutch Shepherd, 3 Dalmatians and a Maltipoo. - Location: Spring, TX
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
I've owned one Dutch Shepherd and she has never been destructive. She has never growled at anyone in my family. She has a funny growl / bark she does at my wife when she gets ignored by her when the wife is relaxing on couch watching tv or whatever or Medy wants some popcorn. It is not a problem and simply trying communicate and to get attention. very cute and funny. I do live on a golf course. My back yard is out of bounds for a golf course and we get a lot of cart traffic. She does hate golfers though I'm not sure she would bite one. Hopefully she would if one entered my yard. I think she might bite the golf cart. It gets her prey drive going which is what she is mainly worked up about.
She gets kind of crazy when it is time to go outside and work or play, but if she has to chill for a day or two she does not destroy my house and stays reasonably calm. Never has. She is 15 months old and is sleeping unkenelled at this moment in our bedroom on the floor by my bed. She never wanders around the house and stays on the floor until I get up (even if I sleep in to 8:30 or 9 after a long trip). She does not have accidents. When we get outside and work or play her drives get the best of her (which is a good thing for me. I want intense prey drive).
Bottom line the biggest problem I have is she plays too rough.
I have Dalmatians and I am worried for their safety at times. There has never been a fight between her and (three other females and one male) the others but she hits them so hard when we first start the walk I'm afraid she is going to hurt one. She calms down after a bit. I'm sure a better trainer would have it under control already. I'm working on it. I have an ecollar on her and the only use of the ecollar to to get her to back off the Dals. She is smart, pleasant, easy to train, and protective. She has sit, down, here mastered by 10 to 12 weeks of age.
I was afraid the DS project would be too much for my wife but she loves our DS more then any of our other dogs (that we have had in 24 years of marriage). My wife noramlly does not care for big dogs.
I know there are dogs out there with crazy drives. I am around a young KNPV dog in my area and so far he seems very reasonable. He is more agressive on the training field with bite work then mine but his owner has been training for 30 years so he has a bit of advantage. This guy is not a family pet and is kenneled all the time which is also going to make a difference, His blood line helps also but I do believe my girl is a bit on the "nice" side. I think she has siblings who are a bit more extreme and these also had the benefit of experienced protection sport owners.
One reason I beleive my girl is balanced is because that is what the intent was in breeding, Good character and stability. Also the brreder began socialization immediately. They had kids and people around from birth. I have videos of all the pups playing with kids and other adults at 5 weeks of age. She was well socialized by the time i received her.
I feel all dogs need a job or we will have problems. Medy is really not more diffucult to deal with then many other working type dogs, german short hair, Chesepeke Bay Retriever, Dalmatian, Blue Healer and other breeds that need to work.
I am very active and a working dog fits my lifestyle when I am home. I also travel a lot and make trips regularly to China and I do not take any of my dogs on this trips. She would be great if I could take her. She loves hotels and traveling. When I am gone on long trip is a worriesome time for me and I have had to push my college age kids to help out when I am gone to get Medy some work even if it is just a few games of fetch each day.
She gets kind of crazy when it is time to go outside and work or play, but if she has to chill for a day or two she does not destroy my house and stays reasonably calm. Never has. She is 15 months old and is sleeping unkenelled at this moment in our bedroom on the floor by my bed. She never wanders around the house and stays on the floor until I get up (even if I sleep in to 8:30 or 9 after a long trip). She does not have accidents. When we get outside and work or play her drives get the best of her (which is a good thing for me. I want intense prey drive).
Bottom line the biggest problem I have is she plays too rough.
I have Dalmatians and I am worried for their safety at times. There has never been a fight between her and (three other females and one male) the others but she hits them so hard when we first start the walk I'm afraid she is going to hurt one. She calms down after a bit. I'm sure a better trainer would have it under control already. I'm working on it. I have an ecollar on her and the only use of the ecollar to to get her to back off the Dals. She is smart, pleasant, easy to train, and protective. She has sit, down, here mastered by 10 to 12 weeks of age.
I was afraid the DS project would be too much for my wife but she loves our DS more then any of our other dogs (that we have had in 24 years of marriage). My wife noramlly does not care for big dogs.
I know there are dogs out there with crazy drives. I am around a young KNPV dog in my area and so far he seems very reasonable. He is more agressive on the training field with bite work then mine but his owner has been training for 30 years so he has a bit of advantage. This guy is not a family pet and is kenneled all the time which is also going to make a difference, His blood line helps also but I do believe my girl is a bit on the "nice" side. I think she has siblings who are a bit more extreme and these also had the benefit of experienced protection sport owners.
One reason I beleive my girl is balanced is because that is what the intent was in breeding, Good character and stability. Also the brreder began socialization immediately. They had kids and people around from birth. I have videos of all the pups playing with kids and other adults at 5 weeks of age. She was well socialized by the time i received her.
I feel all dogs need a job or we will have problems. Medy is really not more diffucult to deal with then many other working type dogs, german short hair, Chesepeke Bay Retriever, Dalmatian, Blue Healer and other breeds that need to work.
I am very active and a working dog fits my lifestyle when I am home. I also travel a lot and make trips regularly to China and I do not take any of my dogs on this trips. She would be great if I could take her. She loves hotels and traveling. When I am gone on long trip is a worriesome time for me and I have had to push my college age kids to help out when I am gone to get Medy some work even if it is just a few games of fetch each day.
Dan, Leticia and our dog family - Medy (DS), Coco (Dalmatian), Isabela (Dalmatian), Zoey (Maltipoo)
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johninny
- Working Dog
- Posts: 1326
- Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:22 am
- Tell us about yourself: DS and Mal foster newly approved aug'12 by NADSR and ABMCR. high-functioning Autistic in nyc/hamptons in my 60's. Rescued the smartest dog i had ever seen off nyc street in 2000. Tracedog's intelligence exceeded by multiples my judgement that day. My first [and only as of 10/2012] dog turned out to be a DS, perhaps with a touch of something else, but attention to detail, behavioral traits, and physical habits, movement, and skill identical to DS. But MUCH more intellectual ability. supremely confident in all settings, fearless, very outgoing and social with people and friendly with dogs. Seldom apart in over 12 years, Trace Dog was the most important relationship of my adult life; he was my partner. He died july17,2012. i am dying without him. www.youtube.com/tracesobaka www.dogster.com/dogs/637612
- Location: NH/hamptons/nyc
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
Stephanie, I have alluded to this previously, but I really do wish for the benefit of me and my dogs that you were moving to long island rather than MI.
John & DS rscus TRACE DOG,99-12; fstr7yoCain,8-9/12; Xander(3/12)11/12-2/13; SAKIMA (b.4/12)from11/12; TxXANDER (b.2/13)from5/13; direct from CherCar: TRACER (b.5/4/13). http://www.youtube.com/sakimadoggy http://www.youtube.com/tracesobaka
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Trisha
- Just Whelped
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:43 am
- Tell us about yourself: I am building a home in the jungle beach town of Nosara, Costa Rica. I came across the DS breed here, there is a breeder who trains police, military and home/office protection dogs. I have been looking for the right breed for my next dog for 2 years, I have come to like the breed very much. I like that the DS is a natural guard dog, but do not feel that this type of training fits in with my (home) California lifestyle, I would buy 2 fully trained protection dogs to live with me in CR, if I would live there full time. I have been training horses for 38 years, and personally trained all of the dogs I have ever had, I am excited to train my DS when I find the right puppy, it will be fun to have a dog that loves to learn all kinds of fun tricks and agility games, and loves to fetch. I travel a lot, and travel with my dog, besides having my dog with me almost everywhere I go, so I must have a dog that takes obedience training well, and likes a pack leader.
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
Thank you all for your time and responses. I can see how such an intelligent dog can go wrong very easily. I am very worried about breeding, which is why I would not consider a pup from the breeder here, they are bred for one reason, to be aggressive. I am looking at a pup now, with FCI breeding. One concern I have, I will be coming to Costa Rica in 2-3 week stretches, over the next year, I do not want to bring my pup with me, there are too many things dogs get here in the jungle, the worst is a tick disease, that all dogs get here, no matter how much frontline or daily checking and care they receive, they must be on meds for the rest of their life. Even though I would love to bring my dog, it is not worth it to put the dog in harms way. I have always had Labradors, they easily fit into my friends homes or kennels where the dogs have a big yard and play together. I want to know if a DS will fit into this type of atmosphere if I must leave them?
I am very pleased to hear that they are not automatic biters, I would do my best to train any dog away from being mouthy at all. I would also look for many things other than a tugging reward. I have never needed one before, but I have seen a dog chew, that is suppose to be almost indestructible? It looks to me that a DS is a huge chewer??? I imagine you would need a home chain link kennel (ex-pen), possibly with a top, as they are great climbers and I would like to do some agility training. Do they calm down when they get some age on them? I have had Labs which were great at 6 months, some took 3-4 years to completely calm down, when not at play/work.
I am a true believer in no matter what the breed, a dog is generally a product of its handling, and training. I have seen more poodles who bite, than any other dog I have come across. I also state as being the "alpha", meaning I am the leader, the boss, it comes from the use of the word, such as the alpha mare of a herd of horses. There is always an "alpha" in most aspects of life, whether it be in the animal kingdom, or simply a corporate structure, there is always the number one person who is the leader. I believe in all situations in life, the "alpha" who leads through fear, is not loved or truly respected. I have always found that my dogs and horses, only truly want to follow me out of love and respect, not fear. I do not think any animal or person works well in a state of fear.
I have always reinforced good behavior through petting and closeness with my animals, a calming bond. I have left the food thing out of the equation, as I do not want my animals to think of food as a reward, I want them to never worry about food, they know twice a day when it is time to eat, it is not held against something they might have done, or given for something they have done correctly. I have personally found giving treats to make horses and dogs mouthy, so I do not like to ever feed them from my hand. If there is a special treat given, it is done in their feeder/bowl. I am not saying it is bad for someone else to do, it is just not my way of training.
I look forward to all information, as everyone has their individual experiences, because every dog is an individual, as are every dog or horse I have ever had. They all take to different training methods, just as we humans do, there is not a universal fit for everything, as we breath and think, and see things a little differently.
I am very pleased to hear that they are not automatic biters, I would do my best to train any dog away from being mouthy at all. I would also look for many things other than a tugging reward. I have never needed one before, but I have seen a dog chew, that is suppose to be almost indestructible? It looks to me that a DS is a huge chewer??? I imagine you would need a home chain link kennel (ex-pen), possibly with a top, as they are great climbers and I would like to do some agility training. Do they calm down when they get some age on them? I have had Labs which were great at 6 months, some took 3-4 years to completely calm down, when not at play/work.
I am a true believer in no matter what the breed, a dog is generally a product of its handling, and training. I have seen more poodles who bite, than any other dog I have come across. I also state as being the "alpha", meaning I am the leader, the boss, it comes from the use of the word, such as the alpha mare of a herd of horses. There is always an "alpha" in most aspects of life, whether it be in the animal kingdom, or simply a corporate structure, there is always the number one person who is the leader. I believe in all situations in life, the "alpha" who leads through fear, is not loved or truly respected. I have always found that my dogs and horses, only truly want to follow me out of love and respect, not fear. I do not think any animal or person works well in a state of fear.
I have always reinforced good behavior through petting and closeness with my animals, a calming bond. I have left the food thing out of the equation, as I do not want my animals to think of food as a reward, I want them to never worry about food, they know twice a day when it is time to eat, it is not held against something they might have done, or given for something they have done correctly. I have personally found giving treats to make horses and dogs mouthy, so I do not like to ever feed them from my hand. If there is a special treat given, it is done in their feeder/bowl. I am not saying it is bad for someone else to do, it is just not my way of training.
I look forward to all information, as everyone has their individual experiences, because every dog is an individual, as are every dog or horse I have ever had. They all take to different training methods, just as we humans do, there is not a universal fit for everything, as we breath and think, and see things a little differently.
Trisha & Puma
Ventura Co. California
Playa Guiones, CR.
Ventura Co. California
Playa Guiones, CR.
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Trisha
- Just Whelped
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:43 am
- Tell us about yourself: I am building a home in the jungle beach town of Nosara, Costa Rica. I came across the DS breed here, there is a breeder who trains police, military and home/office protection dogs. I have been looking for the right breed for my next dog for 2 years, I have come to like the breed very much. I like that the DS is a natural guard dog, but do not feel that this type of training fits in with my (home) California lifestyle, I would buy 2 fully trained protection dogs to live with me in CR, if I would live there full time. I have been training horses for 38 years, and personally trained all of the dogs I have ever had, I am excited to train my DS when I find the right puppy, it will be fun to have a dog that loves to learn all kinds of fun tricks and agility games, and loves to fetch. I travel a lot, and travel with my dog, besides having my dog with me almost everywhere I go, so I must have a dog that takes obedience training well, and likes a pack leader.
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
I like Chesapeakes very much, great dogs. The only thing I don't like is the natural oil in their hair, everyone I know who has them, has the oil all over their houseSchlussdibusti wrote:Here are my
It depends on the line. Although a pedigree can not 100% predict how the puppy will turn out but it will leave some clues. Like off-springs of a well known German Shepherd are super in IPO and great as police K9 but are known to "travel up the leash".
Have you ever looked into a Chesapeake Bay Retriever? They are the toughest of the Retriever family, very hearty, very smart and not overbred.
Trisha & Puma
Ventura Co. California
Playa Guiones, CR.
Ventura Co. California
Playa Guiones, CR.
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HeatherH
- Green Dog
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:06 pm
- Tell us about yourself: My name is Heather. My husband and I are empty nesters in or mid 40. We bought a 8 wk old ds from a breeder. We got the name buy a new neighbor. I bought thr dog because we both just putvthe last of or 3 dogs down. I had a dalmatian before I met my husband 4 yeats ago. The love of my life. Iove dogs that are smart and full of energy. I lve hiking but need yhe push. I am just learning alot about the new little guy, but I need more info.
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
JMO. Others here will probably echo it.
I've had all kind of what people deem " aggressive breeds". German Sheperds, Dalmations, Rhodisian. I've always had a dog, single or married with or without a kid. I've never had a problem or a dog at some point I could not turn around. I don't think of a dog as protection. Early detection yep, something here's not right. I've also lived in a few places and traveled with the dog. Training and listening to people who seem to know what they're talking about. It would be like raising a kid on Dr.Spock literature and only taking advise from everyone and everywhere. Your going have one screwed up kid.
You need to understand the the breading and intention of the dog and respect it. Training is a everyday thing until one of you die, there's no way around it if you want the dog to behave in a certain way and respond to you.
I always ask for help and advise in the begining to jog my memmory cause I'm getting old and my puppies are getting young.
Sorry I'm probably rambling
H
I've had all kind of what people deem " aggressive breeds". German Sheperds, Dalmations, Rhodisian. I've always had a dog, single or married with or without a kid. I've never had a problem or a dog at some point I could not turn around. I don't think of a dog as protection. Early detection yep, something here's not right. I've also lived in a few places and traveled with the dog. Training and listening to people who seem to know what they're talking about. It would be like raising a kid on Dr.Spock literature and only taking advise from everyone and everywhere. Your going have one screwed up kid.
You need to understand the the breading and intention of the dog and respect it. Training is a everyday thing until one of you die, there's no way around it if you want the dog to behave in a certain way and respond to you.
I always ask for help and advise in the begining to jog my memmory cause I'm getting old and my puppies are getting young.
Sorry I'm probably rambling
H
Heather from Hamilton Ont.
Dutch- DS.
Pearl - cat
Dutch- DS.
Pearl - cat
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johninny
- Working Dog
- Posts: 1326
- Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:22 am
- Tell us about yourself: DS and Mal foster newly approved aug'12 by NADSR and ABMCR. high-functioning Autistic in nyc/hamptons in my 60's. Rescued the smartest dog i had ever seen off nyc street in 2000. Tracedog's intelligence exceeded by multiples my judgement that day. My first [and only as of 10/2012] dog turned out to be a DS, perhaps with a touch of something else, but attention to detail, behavioral traits, and physical habits, movement, and skill identical to DS. But MUCH more intellectual ability. supremely confident in all settings, fearless, very outgoing and social with people and friendly with dogs. Seldom apart in over 12 years, Trace Dog was the most important relationship of my adult life; he was my partner. He died july17,2012. i am dying without him. www.youtube.com/tracesobaka www.dogster.com/dogs/637612
- Location: NH/hamptons/nyc
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
it sounded like you can handle a DS, but I do not think getting a DS puppy and then dumping him into other situations for a few weeks multiple times in a year is going to work well with a DS at all [especially a puppy ], where it might well be fine with most other breeds [ tho not ideal for some ]. I would say wait til Costa Rico travel is thing of the past [ is it over after 1 year?] or choose a different breed.
I can very quickly think of dozens of serious reasons that getting a DS now [ in the face of your travel exigencies ] is a very bad idea, but I just do not have the energy to type for an hour - and by the end of the hour I would probably have thought of another hundred things that could go very wrong with a DS puppy in those circumstances.
I can very quickly think of dozens of serious reasons that getting a DS now [ in the face of your travel exigencies ] is a very bad idea, but I just do not have the energy to type for an hour - and by the end of the hour I would probably have thought of another hundred things that could go very wrong with a DS puppy in those circumstances.
John & DS rscus TRACE DOG,99-12; fstr7yoCain,8-9/12; Xander(3/12)11/12-2/13; SAKIMA (b.4/12)from11/12; TxXANDER (b.2/13)from5/13; direct from CherCar: TRACER (b.5/4/13). http://www.youtube.com/sakimadoggy http://www.youtube.com/tracesobaka
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Dutchringgirl
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 5692
- Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:05 pm
- Tell us about yourself: I am a mom of 6 life forces - 2 kids and 3 dogs 1 hamster. I live in Ct. I have trained Ringsport and Agility and have 2 DS, one 15 and 7 and a Basset Hound Cookie who is 2
- Location: Ct, USA
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
Dogs bite for a reason. There is always a reason, dogs will not bite out of the blue, and because someone didnt pay attention to the dogs reason, dosnt mean there isnt a reason. If you had someone living with you who didnt speak your language, wouldnt you try to learn it so you an understand them? Its no different with dogs. They speak to us and it is our job to learn what they are saying. Like Johnny said, we can be here for hours talking about the DS's whys of temperament. If you get on the floor and the dog growls, can you figure out why and what to do? My dogs dont own anything, they have use of. I dont have any growling problems because they dont have anything to posses. Are you able to decipher that and work with that and train that?
I am on the same page as you with the dogs and horses. Mine have (used to) gone to the barn, I didnt treat train until Sadie came along. I dont really care what others think of how I treat and train my dogs because mine respect me and theirs dont.
My 2c is to check out other breeds. There are tons that can play and to agility and would fit into your life plan better.
I am on the same page as you with the dogs and horses. Mine have (used to) gone to the barn, I didnt treat train until Sadie came along. I dont really care what others think of how I treat and train my dogs because mine respect me and theirs dont.
My 2c is to check out other breeds. There are tons that can play and to agility and would fit into your life plan better.
Lisa, Thalie CGC & Sadie, Cookie the Basset, CT
-
Nordis
- Puppy
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:04 pm
- Tell us about yourself: Hello everyone!
I enjoy my online anonymity. I'm open about most everything though many parts of my private life I prefer to keep private. If I’ve not offered particular areas of information it’s usually because I don’t feel it’s relevant to the situation. I tend to quietly monitor and observe, offering input when I feel I have something important to share and if I feel strongly about something. I don’t hesitate to ask questions if I don’t understand something, regardless of how it may appear to others that I might be a simpleton. Once I get started talking though, I tend to talk a lot, so you've been warned about that!
Please do not take this as anything more than what it is, a desire for privacy. I am not intending to offend or be rude.
Much Peace to all of you, naked and furry. - Location: Currently stationed on planet Earth, Sol system.
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
For me, you sound like a competent person who speaks horse and dog fluently. You know what you do and do not want in regards to your companion's behaviors, and you clearly define those expectations. Based on your experience I personally feel you would do fine with a Dutch Shepherd. I believe for you the likelihood of your dog growling at you or biting you would be the exact same percentage as what you have experienced from your horses and previous dogs. And if you have had those experiences from your other companions, I am certain you afterward understood where the miscommunication between you and them occurred and now take precautions to ensure that event is not repeated with old or new companions.
My feeling is that you/we see bite work the most because it carries with it the sensationalism that people are naturally attracted to. You don't see a lot of the other jobs these dogs are wonderful at because honestly, it doesn't get ratings for media and it doesn't stick out in the minds of the general public. I'd never even heard of dock diving or flyball before I started lurking about here on this forum. Most of these are niche hobbies. Few of them are as well known by the general public, including most dog owners, as well as the various bite work sports. Even those are lumped into the common name of "attack" or "protection" dogs, rather than being referred to as their proper names which denotes specific and clear differences of one sport from another.
Honestly, when was the last time you heard of someone talking about the amazing therapy dog or seeing eye dog and so on? If you're in the right place at the right time you might see a Dutch Shepherd doing search and rescue, or (most often with law enforcement or military) nose work.
The Dutch Shepherd is capable of doing all of these jobs. I really do believe there isn't anything they can not learn. No breed is locked into specifics unless it's done by the owner. I knew a Rottweiler who did therapy work. I knew Malinois that was a companion assistant. I've known German Shepherds that are champion show dogs. Certainly you yourself are familiar with the people who have their companions only for show purposes. And that's work that is just as valid as any other occupation. These breeds are not all aggression and danger.
Let's see what's on Wikipedia:
"This list is intended only to represent anything that anyone is likely to refer to as a dog sport, not to argue its validity as sport.
This list is incomplete[...]
Agility
Bikejoring
Cani cross
Caniteering
Carting
Competition obedience
Conformation showing
Catchball (a variation on flyball)
Disc dog
Dock jumping
Dog hiking, pack hiking
Dog scootering
Earthdog trials
Field trials
Flyball
French Ring sport
Greyhound racing
Greyhound jockey
Hare coursing
Herding or stock dog
Hunting
Hound trailing
Junior showmanship
Jack Russell hurdle racing
Lure coursing
Dog mushing
Musical canine freestyle, canine dressage, heelwork to music
Nose work
Obedience training
Protection sports (including Schutzhund, Service Dogs Of America and French Ring sport)
Rally obedience
Retrieving trials
Schutzhund
Scootering
Sheepdog trials (or herding)
Sighthound disc sport
Sighthound racing (including Greyhound and Whippet racing, coursing, and lure coursing)
Skijoring
Skip dog
Sled dog racing
Dog surfing
Terrier racing
Tracking trials (see also Tracking (dog))
Treibball
Water work/Water rescue
Weight pulling
Dachshund racing (or Wiener racing)
Wheelchair mushing"
Obviously discounting the breed specific items, I think a Dutch Shepherd would be happy with any of these. But these are not something you'll be likely to see unless you go looking for them. We see bite work all the time because that's what we are shown. And perhaps we tend to imitate what we see. After that we may see competition showings for confirmation and obedience. And then you may see the Australian Shepherd on the beach catching a frisbee.
Like you say, they want to please you. True happiness for them comes from making you happy. I agree that should you decide on a Dutch Shepherd it is wise to find a dog that is bred for the attributes that you desire, and not the ones you are concerned about here.
My own experience with my Dutch Shepherds has been preceded by pretty thorough explanations and conversations in which I expressed exactly what I wanted my companions for. And my experience with a breeder and then with North American Dutch Shepherd Rescue both resulted in me getting the perfect dogs. I've never had any negative issues. One was protective of his food if he felt a cat got too close, only a few times. He also loved to play with my cat. And I did get my foot mouthed when I stepped on his foot. Fair enough. Dark dog, dark floor, this is why I say get out of the kitchen when I'm working there, go lay down out of the kitchen, not on the kitchen floor. My second companion is nothing but love. He's never growled, even during tugging play. Actually I'm the one who growls in an attempt to get him to do it, but no such luck. He may or may not bark at someone close to the property, even someone knocking on the door. This is a behavior I'm actually having to teach him. Very unDutchlike of him. (My experience with the German, Dutch, and Malinois is that they instinctively bond to one person, and then to the family, welcoming the new visitor after a proper introduction, and they instinctively protect the home by barking.) The only thing I have to be concerned about when he meets people is that he thinks they are too tall and since they aren't coming down to his level he'll solve the issue by getting up to theirs. And we're working on the mouthing because as saying hello progresses into playing, for older people he meets that may be too much pressure, so we don't want any mouthing at all.
Both dogs completely adapted to my lifestyle, which is far from the breed norm. However, we are constant companions, and that means the work is constant as well, even if it doesn't fall into the category of what most people call work. So interpret it how you will.
If you plan on making weeks long trips and don't intend to take your dog, then I think the location you mentioned is a perfect alternative. I think your dog would be quite happy there. I think Johninny makes a good point in the sense that you might not want to just dump a dog there and disappear. But, if you've worked up to that with visits and by having these people playing the role of extended family, and if you are confident that their training and relating to your dog is consistent with yours, especially during the formative early period of puppyhood, then I think you'd be ok. Personally I wouldn't want to be apart from my guy, but no, I certainly wouldn't take him to Costa Rica given what you describe.
The breed is not locked into any specific category. The breed is not a dangerous and unpredictable breed. I think the cases of aggression are proportionally very few when looking at the larger picture of all Dutch Shepherds and owners, though I speak from opinion only. And my opinion tells me that the majority of people with a Dutch Shepherd with biting/aggression issues are not doing their part of responsible training and animal husbandry, nor do they have 38+ years experience like you do.
As a matter of fact, many times on reading/watching about the rescues from shelters the Dutch Shepherds are labeled as aggressive, but when someone who knows better comes along and speaks Dutch Shepherd, they are revealed to be the happy loving dogs we all love so much, who now have someone they don't need to growl at or bite at or whatever because everyone is on the same page.
I refer you to my first statement: Based on what you've said here, you are a competent person capable of having a Dutch Shepherd as a companion and being able to communicate with that dog well enough that there would never be any misunderstandings that would lead to growling or biting being necessary.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that a metal crate will stop a chewing problem. You may wind up with a destroyed metal crate. Address the crate training and bed/place training and address the chewing instinct with positive reinforcements and proper chew toys. It may have been alspyce aka Chris Carlton/Lyric who suggested Goughnuts as far as durable chew toys. Search for goughnuts and dogsgonuts on this site, and the internet. They seem to be a good toy and a good company with lifetime replacements for free though you do pay for shipping. I haven't gotten one yet. Instead toy chewing is supervised and we don't (haha yeah right) chew the little nubs off the toys now. At least we aren't supposed to! I collect balls, and one current toy is a racquet ball which would normally last maybe a minute. It is still completely unmarked by teeth, and it's gotten it's fair amount of toothy squeezings. I'm so proud of our little Rorhin!
Calming down. I can only speak for myself. My dogs match my attitudes. We are usually calm. A certain amount of restraint is needed when playing with a tiny not-dog (cat) as well, and there has been one yelp in six months that marks a claw meeting a nose or some area of the dog. Never any blood or mark that I could fine on either dog, and still counting two cats so no one is absent. Really, the rescue dog is better at this than the one raised from puppyhood! But as I said, they are calm when I am. Again I have to stress that I clearly defined my reasons for having a dog, and I feel much credit goes to the people that matched us up, both breeder and rescuers.
I'm certainly no professional dog trainer. I've only emulated what I have learned from growing up in a dog oriented family and from observations and research. It may take a bit longer for me than it might for others, especially now because I'm going slow on purpose, but the general public all seem to be amazed at what to me is simple people and dog companionship and communication that we both enjoy. You've experienced this yourself, watching jaws drop.
As far as food reward training, I like your thought process. In my experience being mouthy, especially when giving/taking treats, was just another opportunity to train the desired behavior. The end result is fingers don't get bitten and drooly because the treat is taken gently and cautiously. And like you, I'm not saying you need to change what works best for you. I think you're doing quite well from what you're saying here.
I found the link!:
All the best, and good luck.
And please anyone who reads this, understand these are my opinions from my observations and experiences. I don't want to get into discussions about who is wrong and who is right. To each her/his own and all of that. No one is wrong if what they do works for them. But please, if I've grossly put out incorrect information, do correct me. Thanks.
My feeling is that you/we see bite work the most because it carries with it the sensationalism that people are naturally attracted to. You don't see a lot of the other jobs these dogs are wonderful at because honestly, it doesn't get ratings for media and it doesn't stick out in the minds of the general public. I'd never even heard of dock diving or flyball before I started lurking about here on this forum. Most of these are niche hobbies. Few of them are as well known by the general public, including most dog owners, as well as the various bite work sports. Even those are lumped into the common name of "attack" or "protection" dogs, rather than being referred to as their proper names which denotes specific and clear differences of one sport from another.
Honestly, when was the last time you heard of someone talking about the amazing therapy dog or seeing eye dog and so on? If you're in the right place at the right time you might see a Dutch Shepherd doing search and rescue, or (most often with law enforcement or military) nose work.
The Dutch Shepherd is capable of doing all of these jobs. I really do believe there isn't anything they can not learn. No breed is locked into specifics unless it's done by the owner. I knew a Rottweiler who did therapy work. I knew Malinois that was a companion assistant. I've known German Shepherds that are champion show dogs. Certainly you yourself are familiar with the people who have their companions only for show purposes. And that's work that is just as valid as any other occupation. These breeds are not all aggression and danger.
Let's see what's on Wikipedia:
"This list is intended only to represent anything that anyone is likely to refer to as a dog sport, not to argue its validity as sport.
This list is incomplete[...]
Agility
Bikejoring
Cani cross
Caniteering
Carting
Competition obedience
Conformation showing
Catchball (a variation on flyball)
Disc dog
Dock jumping
Dog hiking, pack hiking
Dog scootering
Earthdog trials
Field trials
Flyball
French Ring sport
Greyhound racing
Greyhound jockey
Hare coursing
Herding or stock dog
Hunting
Hound trailing
Junior showmanship
Jack Russell hurdle racing
Lure coursing
Dog mushing
Musical canine freestyle, canine dressage, heelwork to music
Nose work
Obedience training
Protection sports (including Schutzhund, Service Dogs Of America and French Ring sport)
Rally obedience
Retrieving trials
Schutzhund
Scootering
Sheepdog trials (or herding)
Sighthound disc sport
Sighthound racing (including Greyhound and Whippet racing, coursing, and lure coursing)
Skijoring
Skip dog
Sled dog racing
Dog surfing
Terrier racing
Tracking trials (see also Tracking (dog))
Treibball
Water work/Water rescue
Weight pulling
Dachshund racing (or Wiener racing)
Wheelchair mushing"
Obviously discounting the breed specific items, I think a Dutch Shepherd would be happy with any of these. But these are not something you'll be likely to see unless you go looking for them. We see bite work all the time because that's what we are shown. And perhaps we tend to imitate what we see. After that we may see competition showings for confirmation and obedience. And then you may see the Australian Shepherd on the beach catching a frisbee.
Like you say, they want to please you. True happiness for them comes from making you happy. I agree that should you decide on a Dutch Shepherd it is wise to find a dog that is bred for the attributes that you desire, and not the ones you are concerned about here.
My own experience with my Dutch Shepherds has been preceded by pretty thorough explanations and conversations in which I expressed exactly what I wanted my companions for. And my experience with a breeder and then with North American Dutch Shepherd Rescue both resulted in me getting the perfect dogs. I've never had any negative issues. One was protective of his food if he felt a cat got too close, only a few times. He also loved to play with my cat. And I did get my foot mouthed when I stepped on his foot. Fair enough. Dark dog, dark floor, this is why I say get out of the kitchen when I'm working there, go lay down out of the kitchen, not on the kitchen floor. My second companion is nothing but love. He's never growled, even during tugging play. Actually I'm the one who growls in an attempt to get him to do it, but no such luck. He may or may not bark at someone close to the property, even someone knocking on the door. This is a behavior I'm actually having to teach him. Very unDutchlike of him. (My experience with the German, Dutch, and Malinois is that they instinctively bond to one person, and then to the family, welcoming the new visitor after a proper introduction, and they instinctively protect the home by barking.) The only thing I have to be concerned about when he meets people is that he thinks they are too tall and since they aren't coming down to his level he'll solve the issue by getting up to theirs. And we're working on the mouthing because as saying hello progresses into playing, for older people he meets that may be too much pressure, so we don't want any mouthing at all.
Both dogs completely adapted to my lifestyle, which is far from the breed norm. However, we are constant companions, and that means the work is constant as well, even if it doesn't fall into the category of what most people call work. So interpret it how you will.
If you plan on making weeks long trips and don't intend to take your dog, then I think the location you mentioned is a perfect alternative. I think your dog would be quite happy there. I think Johninny makes a good point in the sense that you might not want to just dump a dog there and disappear. But, if you've worked up to that with visits and by having these people playing the role of extended family, and if you are confident that their training and relating to your dog is consistent with yours, especially during the formative early period of puppyhood, then I think you'd be ok. Personally I wouldn't want to be apart from my guy, but no, I certainly wouldn't take him to Costa Rica given what you describe.
The breed is not locked into any specific category. The breed is not a dangerous and unpredictable breed. I think the cases of aggression are proportionally very few when looking at the larger picture of all Dutch Shepherds and owners, though I speak from opinion only. And my opinion tells me that the majority of people with a Dutch Shepherd with biting/aggression issues are not doing their part of responsible training and animal husbandry, nor do they have 38+ years experience like you do.
As a matter of fact, many times on reading/watching about the rescues from shelters the Dutch Shepherds are labeled as aggressive, but when someone who knows better comes along and speaks Dutch Shepherd, they are revealed to be the happy loving dogs we all love so much, who now have someone they don't need to growl at or bite at or whatever because everyone is on the same page.
I refer you to my first statement: Based on what you've said here, you are a competent person capable of having a Dutch Shepherd as a companion and being able to communicate with that dog well enough that there would never be any misunderstandings that would lead to growling or biting being necessary.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that a metal crate will stop a chewing problem. You may wind up with a destroyed metal crate. Address the crate training and bed/place training and address the chewing instinct with positive reinforcements and proper chew toys. It may have been alspyce aka Chris Carlton/Lyric who suggested Goughnuts as far as durable chew toys. Search for goughnuts and dogsgonuts on this site, and the internet. They seem to be a good toy and a good company with lifetime replacements for free though you do pay for shipping. I haven't gotten one yet. Instead toy chewing is supervised and we don't (haha yeah right) chew the little nubs off the toys now. At least we aren't supposed to! I collect balls, and one current toy is a racquet ball which would normally last maybe a minute. It is still completely unmarked by teeth, and it's gotten it's fair amount of toothy squeezings. I'm so proud of our little Rorhin!
Calming down. I can only speak for myself. My dogs match my attitudes. We are usually calm. A certain amount of restraint is needed when playing with a tiny not-dog (cat) as well, and there has been one yelp in six months that marks a claw meeting a nose or some area of the dog. Never any blood or mark that I could fine on either dog, and still counting two cats so no one is absent. Really, the rescue dog is better at this than the one raised from puppyhood! But as I said, they are calm when I am. Again I have to stress that I clearly defined my reasons for having a dog, and I feel much credit goes to the people that matched us up, both breeder and rescuers.
I'm certainly no professional dog trainer. I've only emulated what I have learned from growing up in a dog oriented family and from observations and research. It may take a bit longer for me than it might for others, especially now because I'm going slow on purpose, but the general public all seem to be amazed at what to me is simple people and dog companionship and communication that we both enjoy. You've experienced this yourself, watching jaws drop.
This alone guarantees your success with a Dutch Shepherd. I don't see how anyone could disagree with me on this point.Trisha wrote:I have always found that my dogs and horses, only truly want to follow me out of love and respect, not fear. I do not think any animal or person works well in a state of fear.
I have always reinforced good behavior through petting and closeness with my animals, a calming bond.
As far as food reward training, I like your thought process. In my experience being mouthy, especially when giving/taking treats, was just another opportunity to train the desired behavior. The end result is fingers don't get bitten and drooly because the treat is taken gently and cautiously. And like you, I'm not saying you need to change what works best for you. I think you're doing quite well from what you're saying here.
I found the link!:
You and I are a bit different though Trisha. If my friend wasn't allowed on the furniture I'd be down there on his bed all the time. He's a cuddle bug and so am I. I'm a pretty needy cuddle bug actually.alspyce wrote:Nice pup! If he likes to chew on toys, I suggest the Goughnut Ring - Maxx - Black - Extreme.
http://www.dogsgonuts.com/products.asp?cat=10
Lyric has been chewing hers for 1 1/2 years now! (Her favorite toy) They are a bit expensive, but if your dog ever chews through it the company replaces it free.
All the best, and good luck.
And please anyone who reads this, understand these are my opinions from my observations and experiences. I don't want to get into discussions about who is wrong and who is right. To each her/his own and all of that. No one is wrong if what they do works for them. But please, if I've grossly put out incorrect information, do correct me. Thanks.
Nordis & Rorhin!
Honoring my brothers in fur, passed and present.
“I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive.” ~ Gilda Radner
Honoring my brothers in fur, passed and present.
“I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive.” ~ Gilda Radner
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Trisha
- Just Whelped
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:43 am
- Tell us about yourself: I am building a home in the jungle beach town of Nosara, Costa Rica. I came across the DS breed here, there is a breeder who trains police, military and home/office protection dogs. I have been looking for the right breed for my next dog for 2 years, I have come to like the breed very much. I like that the DS is a natural guard dog, but do not feel that this type of training fits in with my (home) California lifestyle, I would buy 2 fully trained protection dogs to live with me in CR, if I would live there full time. I have been training horses for 38 years, and personally trained all of the dogs I have ever had, I am excited to train my DS when I find the right puppy, it will be fun to have a dog that loves to learn all kinds of fun tricks and agility games, and loves to fetch. I travel a lot, and travel with my dog, besides having my dog with me almost everywhere I go, so I must have a dog that takes obedience training well, and likes a pack leader.
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
Dear Nordis, Thank you so very much for your response! I am in the middle of working right now, so I must wait until later to write more... One thing, I absolutely lay on my dogs beds with them, I love to get down there and cuddle too 
Trisha & Puma
Ventura Co. California
Playa Guiones, CR.
Ventura Co. California
Playa Guiones, CR.
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Sugars Mom
- Working Dog
- Posts: 1734
- Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:16 am
- Tell us about yourself: I adopted a Dutch Shepherd mix (without knowing what she was) from the SPCA here in Victoria BC and am now trying to learn everything I can about this breed. My husband and I work from home most of the time so I thought it was time to get a puppy! We have his 2 boys here half the time and we wanted a nice family dog.
Sugar looks like a miniature Dutch Shepherd with floppy ears, and has every ounce of DS traits in her little body!
I hope to learn from other DS owners and share doggy experiences. - Location: Victoria BC
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
Nordis, great reply. Thanks for taking the time to write it. 
Sue (and Sugar)
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Karin
- Green Dog
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 11:27 pm
- Tell us about yourself: Hi there.
I WILL be a new Dutch Shepherd owner on July 20th!!! Puppies are on the ground and a huge litter at 14! Very excited. I chose the Dutch because I like high drive dogs and my husband likes shepherds. We both have had GSDs in our past. I also am interested in search and rescue training. I live in the mountains of California and have two older Australian Shepherds. I do know that I have a job managing this pack. My husband is on board with it all. No kids. Both of us have flexible jobs. We are active folk but aging! ;-))
Still we mountain bike, hike, cross-country ski and my husband runs. I walk in the woods with the dogs 3 times a day and we are lucky to have US Forest right out the door. So that is it.
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
Nordis,
Thanks for writing. I'm getting my pup (as is Trisha!!! Ha! Spilled the beans!) in two weeks and this was such a nice message to read.
Best to you and your pups.
Thanks for writing. I'm getting my pup (as is Trisha!!! Ha! Spilled the beans!) in two weeks and this was such a nice message to read.
Best to you and your pups.
Karin In Lake Tahoe
Ptygo de las Flores (Tee-go)
Born May 24, 2013
Ptygo de las Flores (Tee-go)
Born May 24, 2013
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Trisha
- Just Whelped
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:43 am
- Tell us about yourself: I am building a home in the jungle beach town of Nosara, Costa Rica. I came across the DS breed here, there is a breeder who trains police, military and home/office protection dogs. I have been looking for the right breed for my next dog for 2 years, I have come to like the breed very much. I like that the DS is a natural guard dog, but do not feel that this type of training fits in with my (home) California lifestyle, I would buy 2 fully trained protection dogs to live with me in CR, if I would live there full time. I have been training horses for 38 years, and personally trained all of the dogs I have ever had, I am excited to train my DS when I find the right puppy, it will be fun to have a dog that loves to learn all kinds of fun tricks and agility games, and loves to fetch. I travel a lot, and travel with my dog, besides having my dog with me almost everywhere I go, so I must have a dog that takes obedience training well, and likes a pack leader.
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
Nordis,
As I reread your post, it filled me again with the excitement of receiving my pup in a few weeks, as I know she will be as all of the other dogs I have had in my life, a loyal, loving companion, who is capable of being in any public place, without me ever worrying she might become aggressive. I will do my best to introduce her to as much as I can, with loving and calming, good experiences, to build her confidence from the day she arrives. I am looking forward to having a pup that can do so many fun things, especially when it comes to agility. I bred horses for their agility, so they were also a bit high energy, I guess I am drawn to high energy
I have already started to think of the correct plan for her, when I must come back to Costa Rica to work for 6 weeks in November. I too feel that I need to find the right trainer, who will share some of and respect my personal training methods, get her completely comfortable with them, so she does feel as though it is extended family. I truly already feel terrible for having to leave her, but it is for her health and safety, I would love to be selfish and bring her, but that is not the actions of a good parent. There are 2 wonderful places that board dogs, one I call "Doggy Disneyland", they both have these incredible huge yards, where they have water features, all the dogs play and sleep together, it would be wonderful to take her there, but they are completely spoiled rotten (too many treats
)... Not a good choice for her in November, but when she is older, she will definitely get to go on day excursions, I think it's great for them to just be a dog, with their own kind sometimes.
Thank you, for your wise words, and your caring to take the time to write such a wonderful and loving opinion of what a Dutch Shepherd can be if loved and respected. And, for looking up the link for the chew toy, I am on it! Looking it up as soon as I finish writing.
Cheers!
Trisha
As I reread your post, it filled me again with the excitement of receiving my pup in a few weeks, as I know she will be as all of the other dogs I have had in my life, a loyal, loving companion, who is capable of being in any public place, without me ever worrying she might become aggressive. I will do my best to introduce her to as much as I can, with loving and calming, good experiences, to build her confidence from the day she arrives. I am looking forward to having a pup that can do so many fun things, especially when it comes to agility. I bred horses for their agility, so they were also a bit high energy, I guess I am drawn to high energy
I have already started to think of the correct plan for her, when I must come back to Costa Rica to work for 6 weeks in November. I too feel that I need to find the right trainer, who will share some of and respect my personal training methods, get her completely comfortable with them, so she does feel as though it is extended family. I truly already feel terrible for having to leave her, but it is for her health and safety, I would love to be selfish and bring her, but that is not the actions of a good parent. There are 2 wonderful places that board dogs, one I call "Doggy Disneyland", they both have these incredible huge yards, where they have water features, all the dogs play and sleep together, it would be wonderful to take her there, but they are completely spoiled rotten (too many treats
)... Not a good choice for her in November, but when she is older, she will definitely get to go on day excursions, I think it's great for them to just be a dog, with their own kind sometimes.Thank you, for your wise words, and your caring to take the time to write such a wonderful and loving opinion of what a Dutch Shepherd can be if loved and respected. And, for looking up the link for the chew toy, I am on it! Looking it up as soon as I finish writing.
Cheers!
Trisha
Trisha & Puma
Ventura Co. California
Playa Guiones, CR.
Ventura Co. California
Playa Guiones, CR.
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Schlussdibusti
- Working Dog
- Posts: 1040
- Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:25 pm
- Tell us about yourself: I adopted a DS
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
May be you can make arrangements to have your pup stay with the breeder for the 6 weeks. You would have the peace of mind that your pup is in good DS knowledgeable hands. And they know each other already, and the pup knows the environment and he is also a super trainer to train with. 
Eva & Marco BH
Jupiter, Florida
Jupiter, Florida
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johninny
- Working Dog
- Posts: 1326
- Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:22 am
- Tell us about yourself: DS and Mal foster newly approved aug'12 by NADSR and ABMCR. high-functioning Autistic in nyc/hamptons in my 60's. Rescued the smartest dog i had ever seen off nyc street in 2000. Tracedog's intelligence exceeded by multiples my judgement that day. My first [and only as of 10/2012] dog turned out to be a DS, perhaps with a touch of something else, but attention to detail, behavioral traits, and physical habits, movement, and skill identical to DS. But MUCH more intellectual ability. supremely confident in all settings, fearless, very outgoing and social with people and friendly with dogs. Seldom apart in over 12 years, Trace Dog was the most important relationship of my adult life; he was my partner. He died july17,2012. i am dying without him. www.youtube.com/tracesobaka www.dogster.com/dogs/637612
- Location: NH/hamptons/nyc
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
now there is a very good idea, Eva !
John & DS rscus TRACE DOG,99-12; fstr7yoCain,8-9/12; Xander(3/12)11/12-2/13; SAKIMA (b.4/12)from11/12; TxXANDER (b.2/13)from5/13; direct from CherCar: TRACER (b.5/4/13). http://www.youtube.com/sakimadoggy http://www.youtube.com/tracesobaka
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Trisha
- Just Whelped
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:43 am
- Tell us about yourself: I am building a home in the jungle beach town of Nosara, Costa Rica. I came across the DS breed here, there is a breeder who trains police, military and home/office protection dogs. I have been looking for the right breed for my next dog for 2 years, I have come to like the breed very much. I like that the DS is a natural guard dog, but do not feel that this type of training fits in with my (home) California lifestyle, I would buy 2 fully trained protection dogs to live with me in CR, if I would live there full time. I have been training horses for 38 years, and personally trained all of the dogs I have ever had, I am excited to train my DS when I find the right puppy, it will be fun to have a dog that loves to learn all kinds of fun tricks and agility games, and loves to fetch. I travel a lot, and travel with my dog, besides having my dog with me almost everywhere I go, so I must have a dog that takes obedience training well, and likes a pack leader.
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
I already spoke with Les about it. It might not be possible due to a litter of pups they will have and all their other training going on. I will talk to several trainers in my area, see who I like the best and start something there, which should be fine I am also going to look into local trainers who can do a service dog certified training for a certificate, even though she will be very young, if I am going to have to leave her that long, it would be great to be able to take her in the cabin with me when we fly I hate having to put them in the cargo space 
I like these icons
I am also going to look into local trainers who can do a service dog certified training for a certificate, even though she will be very young, if I am going to have to leave her that long, it would be great to be able to take her in the cabin with me when we fly I hate having to put them in the cargo space I like these icons
Trisha & Puma
Ventura Co. California
Playa Guiones, CR.
Ventura Co. California
Playa Guiones, CR.
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LyonsFamily
- Training Dog
- Posts: 947
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:08 am
- Tell us about yourself: Odin 5 years
Elli 5 years - Location: Michigan
- Contact:
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
A board and train might be a good option, but don't be fooled into the "certified" service dogs certificate. There's no certifying body and that certificate doesn't mean anything. Service dogs are allowed places as long as they're servicing a real disability and they aren't a behavioral problem in public. Any one can train one. The only thing you can be asked for to prove it's a service dog is (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? They can't require proof of training or certification, so someone claiming that they provide a certificate is either uneducated about service dogs and the ADA, or out there scamming and convincing people that a certified dog is the only way to be compliant with the law.Trisha wrote: I am also going to look into local trainers who can do a service dog certified training for a certificate, even though she will be very young, if I am going to have to leave her that long, it would be great to be able to take her in the cabin with me when we fly
I like these icons
I also can't stand daycare/boarding centers that are cage free like the one you described. They're just a disaster waiting to happen, just like dog parks. Usually the staff knows little about dog behavior and fights happen at some point or another, even with well behaved dogs. It paints a pretty picture in pet owners' heads about the dogs running around and enjoying themselves, but it's a huge free for all with no boundaries and dogs are forced to attempt to "get along" with new strange dogs with very little introductions done besides a few seconds temperament test. Dogs aren't the social creatures we want them to be; that's a human desire.
Stephanie
'Odin' NV PTA Odin of Another Kingdom RL1
'Elli' Drawing Our Own Constellations RL1 CGC CGCA
'Odin' NV PTA Odin of Another Kingdom RL1
'Elli' Drawing Our Own Constellations RL1 CGC CGCA
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Schlussdibusti
- Working Dog
- Posts: 1040
- Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:25 pm
- Tell us about yourself: I adopted a DS
Re: The more I read, gives me hesitation?
too bad it might not work out with Les.
You might want to check out Michael Ellis. He is in Fairfield, CA. http://michaelellisschool.com/vid_engagement.htm
You might want to check out Michael Ellis. He is in Fairfield, CA. http://michaelellisschool.com/vid_engagement.htm
Eva & Marco BH
Jupiter, Florida
Jupiter, Florida