Supplement question

[Tomoe]

Hello all,
We currently have a 18W.O. DS who was just diagnosed and is being treated for locallized dermadex. I have read that this often plagues dogs with undeveloped immune systems and wanted to get her on some vitamins/supplements to aid in her system development. Her diet currently consists of Puppy formula pro plan, she is about 26lbs, and gets alot of work. Just wanted to get some opinions/input on what supplements other owners/trainers use.

[johninny]

I cannot speak specifically to the needs of an un/under-developed immune system, however, I do give my dogs a number of nutritional supplements. one that is new in the last year for my dogs but that has done wonders for me for 43 years is ascorbyl palmitate. [ ascorbyl palmitate is the most bio-available form of vitamin C and is carried by Vitamin Shoppe.] this is the one thing that I know does an immune system wonders which is why I started taking it for an immune system that had been MIA for the first 18 years of my life. I had not given it to dogs til recently until someone here on the forum cited a scientific study on the wonders of trouble prevention in dogs for serious diseases, joints deterioration, and even hip problems [ rather miraculous on this point in preventing problems in dogs where x-rays would otherwise suggest problems] ! in humans, there is no negative side-effect of which I have ever read accept loose stool at very high dosing, so I figured that the dogs can have the same great benefit humans experience.
the basic nutritional supplement I have used for the dogs for 13 years is ''platinum performance CJ'' which is put out by a really great company that caters to the Olympic program and thoroughbred racing. it was highly recommended by vet school journals at john Hopkins and tufts and by WDJ. the ''CJ'' stands for complete joint; a poor immune system implies lots of inflammation so a separate, ADDITIONAL joint support supplement is indicated [ like Cosequin DS plus]. in fact, anything that reduces/helps prevent inflammation of any kind is what you should seek. so a total dietary approach based on minimizing inflammation in the body as a whole [ not just joints ] is what I would look into.
other supplements i use: a] occasional vit E, b] lutein and bilberry to prevent cataracts [ TD dies at almost 13 with perfectly clear eyes], c] dandelion, aids in digestion resulting in a dramatic increase in the effective absorption of nutrients in the dog's intestines [ again coming from scientific studies in the vet school journals and highly recommended by them], and d] pycnogenol [ no typo there !] which is the phyto-chemical in pine bark which is quite effective against some forms of cancer, but for which I have no documented reason for giving to the dogs; I give them tiny amounts because dogs seem obsessed with getting bark, especially evergreen bark, into their bodies, so I assume there is a good reason for that and that beneficial effects from its flavonoids might be that reason.
probiotic supplements have also been shown - like vit C - to have very positive generalized effects, including reduction of inflammation. fortiflora is supposedly formulated for dogs; I have used that and other liquid and pill formulations over time fed with their first big meal of the day. in addition, the dogs get a daily night-time snack of yogurt or cottage cheese [ both non-fat].
in the interest of delivering phyto-chemicals, they usually get fruit with their night-time dessert and as snack during the day. banana is the standard because of ease, but also try to give phyto variety, so blueberries my favorite for health benefit], watermelon [ good chemicals are concentrated close to the rind where melon is darker], cantaloupe, honeydew.

[Stacy_R]

1. Powdered colostrum works great for immune support. I have even used it with my older dogs to help get them over the hump when they have had issues.
2. You can also give Vitamin C in its ester form.
3. I would also recommend adding Omega 3's to her diet to help her skin heal from the inside. My crew gets fish oil (Omega 3), vitamin e, and coconut oil (Omega 6) daily for internal support.

Coconut oil is a great medium chain fatty acid and has antibacterial, antiviral, and antifungal properties. Dosage for the coconut oil is roughly 1 tsp per 10 lbs.

For fish oil, the usual dose is 100-150 mg EPA and DHA per 10 lbs. You can't really overdo on fish oil and suffer any health side effects. The only side effect if you give too much will be loose stools , so just reduce the dosage.

If you give fish oil, you will want to give vitamin e as well (fish oil inhibits the absorption of vitamin e in dogs as well as in humans). Dosage for vitamin e under one school of thought is generally 200-300 IU for dogs from up to 50 lbs and 300-400 IU for dogs over 50. Another school of thought recommends 400 IU for all dogs under 2 years old, and 800 IU for dogs over 2 years old. Since vitamin e is fat soluable instead of water soluable, you don't want to overdo. However, as long as you stay under 4,000IU per day you should be fine.

Regarding ester C, I have only ever used this one: http://www.thewholisticpet.com/products ... er-cr.html so I cannot speak to dosing instructions if you use one marketed for us humans.

[Tomoe]

Wow!! Thank you all, I am going to have to reread these a few times. My previous GSD was given fish oil, and glucosamine/condrotin daily, not as a pup however. Tomo(my DS) has dermadex , my understanding was this wasnt necessarily a guarantee of immune deficiencies as she matures but a possibility. I have alot of reading to do.

[johninny]

Stacy, the oils are a great idea [ and forgot to mention my use of them ], especially for immune response and cutting inflammation. I would not exceed 400 i.u. vit E per day though as there may be long-term downsides that are not well-explored/discussed yet.

[Stacy_R]

Tomoe -
You are welcome! Happy to help.

I would not exceed 400 i.u. vit E per day though as there may be long-term downsides that are not well-explored/discussed yet.

John -
I do agree with you on this. Personally, I think 4000 IU daily is pretty extreme and since E is fat soluble not water soluble, there could be negative effects due to vit E buildup in the system. The 4000 IU is from a paper done by R.M. Clemmons, DVM, PhD, Associate Professor of Neurology & Neurosurgery, Small Animal Clinical Sciences at the University of Florida on Degenerative Myelopathy in German Shepherd Dogs. His comment was that there are "no known side effects" at this level. However, I prefer to err on the side of caution and go with the lower doses.

Tyson is 40 lbs and gets 200 IU per day. Snickers and Baby Ruth are 7 lbs and 14 lbs respectively and get 200 IU every other day (the pills I buy are 200 IU).

[Sugars Mom]

I recently adopted a pup (not a DS) who had dermadex as well. He was treated for it, and the patchy spots cleared up pretty quick. Fish oil was also suggested to help. I did reading about it too, and seems its not a big deal once its taken care of.

When I got him, I immediately switched him to Orijen puppy food and now his coat gleams. He looks so healthy and smells so good too. : )