CATS

[Groc352]

So we recently got a DS Puppy from a shelter, we have had her for about 2 months now, she is about 6 months old now.

Problem is, we have cats both only one year old.
How do I get Zia(our puppy) to not want to chase the cats every time she is excited. She really only goes after the cats when she is excited, bored, or anything other than tired and sleepy.
We give her knuckle bones and raw beef soup bones, a kong with peanut butter. all things she loves and keep her occupied. until a cat runs across the house and she takes off after them.
lately she has been jumping up with her front paws onto the table, counters, couch. To get to the cat.

It dosnt seem like she wants to hurt the cats, just play with them. both cats seem to tolerate the dog. I have caught the dog and both cats curled up on the couch sleeping before. But we need a way to permanently discourage the chasing and sometimes tackling of the cats.

Any one with any ideas?

thanks

[johninny]

just wondering - do the cats want to be chased or even tackled? it would not be so usual. maybe they are bored, too.
if they were ok with it, would you be?

[Groc352]

I wouldnt mind. just worry about the cats saftey.

they hiss at the dog and swat at her. but they also have all their claws so if they really wanted to do damage they could.

I just dont want ZIA to be playing and accidently take it too far and hurt or kill one of the cats. thats my girlfriends cats, and her biggest fear.

[Raven]

I won't post on how to keep your dog from leaving the cats alone, but I will comment on the INVALUABLE training of the "leave it" command. Make it part of your daily obedience training. Once it becomes a conditioned response (like all conditioned responses, it will take time and work to be 100% reliable), it'll be useful for many other things besides the cats. It's no less important a command than a reliable recall, IMHO.

[Groc352]

...the leave it command. good idea! thanks, didnt think of that pertaning to the cats or other things.

thanks for the advice. will put it to work.

[Raven]

FYI and for what it's worth, in teaching "leave it," there was/is always such a "big party" that my guy drops whatever he has like a hot potato--but then comes running to me 240 mph if the reason for the command is aggression-based (for example, if he got a wild critter out back). He's very animal aggressive so this is huge. He made that connection himself--to run to me rather than simply dropping it and stand there or go off somewhere. If he just needs to drop a toy, or stop sniffing something, or get out of the window, or whatever, he does, but he doesn't run to me (and since he's conditioned to the command, there's no need to).

Best of luck! If I remember your pup's age correctly, his prey drive may be kicking in, or about to. Good to get a handle on it now.

[Groc352]

yea she is 6 months old now.
I have been inadvertenly teaching her the leave it command since we got her. Every day when I feed her I put the food down and make her sit and wait untill i say ok. its nice when she is super excited to eat and I can get her to sit there for a minute or two just waiting for me to say ok.

So i started doing it with treats and toys yesterday and actually saying "leave it" She picked it up right away and i was able to walk around the house a bit while she sat there with a treat in front of her untill said ok.

A couple times she chased the cats and I said "leave it" and she stopped and came right to me.

maybe this is the anwser?


as far as prey drive goes, she has started noticing things ouside a lot more latley. chased a flock of turkeys yesterday. pretty funny to watch turkeys run from a little puppy!

[Raven]

Man, sounds like you and your pup are moving right along! Awesome.

I could be wrong, but my thoughts are that letting her chase (turkeys) is counter-productive at this stage. Or rather, especially at this stage. But, like I said, I could be wrong.

That said, you can (should) incrementally proof her as training progresses (perhaps beginning on a long line).

I know squat about dogs that don't already come with (various/serious) issues, so keep that in mind when I talk. One thing to always keep in mind, though, is the adage: whatever we allow, we train.

I look forward to hearing about the progress (and the uh-ohs).

[Groc352]

how do i keep her from taking off if she sees something running or flying through the yard? have a pretty big yard. a little over an acre and no fences between me and the neighbors on either side. if she sees something shell go after it then come back.

she kind of comes when called to outside. sometimes she does, sometimes she is a brat and just looks at me and then goes the other direction.

sometimes when we are outside i keep her tied up to an old tire on a long line so i can still do some work in the yard without having to watch her and make sure she is still in our yard. but other times we can be in the yard and she will stay by me or will come back when called to. all seems to depend on how excited she is. the more excited the less she listens.

keep in mind, its only been 2 months since weve had her. shes learning and so are we. my girlfriend and I both try to train her using the same methods.

[Raven]

While training, the belief is: on-lead or she has control. The tire idea is similar to that of a drag-line, so it should serve the same purpose, and perhaps even better at serving it in regard to hastening her running off, just not as a full-time babysitter--if the tire is what is keeping her from bolting, she's not responding to you. You don't want her equating not leaving with the presence of the tire, and as she grows, she'll just drag the tire. (I had a cat years ago who I let out with me on a long lead tied to a concrete building block; cat learned he could drag the block. He didn't get far fast (and it actually could have hurt him), so imagine your pup as she grows--YEE-HAW! I'm sure she could drag it now, right?)

If she's off-lead, she's going to do whatever strikes her to do. It's that simple. She's just learning the ropes. And she's young. And she hasn't any conditioned responses. Not only are the ground rules no where near what you hope for them to be, but there's a whole big world out there full of smells, and action, and noises, and all sorts of interesting things. Through you is how she'll learn how to deal with/interpret them. And right now, all she really knows is "Holy crap! Look at that!" and "OMG! Look at that!" and "No s***! Look at that!"

So, when your full attention needs to be on tasks at-hand outside, perhaps she shouldn't be outside at that time. Training is a process and requires consistency, as you are aware. You'll work up to where you need to be. While training foundation/ground work, some things need to get placed on the back burner as front burners get fueled.

It sounds like you have a great pup. And luckily you have a girlfriend who wants to be on the same page.

P.S.: If you're into trainers at all, I kind of like Michael Ellis (by himself). He used to be old-school, but changed his views. He probably won't be of help in tit-for-tat, but possibly for insight here or there and the occasional "Duh" factor. Just a thought.

[Groc352]

Thanks for the insight.

regarding the tie up in the yard, we can be in the yard off the leash and she will stay by me for a little while. mabye about 20 mins or so. Ive been working with her almost every day after work with her trying to teach her to come to me when i call her. it seems to be working allright. been at it for a couple weeks consitinaly. but she only does it for about 10 or 20 mins then gets sick of it and wants to explore the woods, creek, or neighbors bird feeders...
So I only tie her to the tire when I have to do somehting outside and it seems to be ok. but I am a little concerned because the second she sees me pick up the rope to clip her to it she starts biting and pulling on the rope. her tail is wagging, but im not sure if she is playing or not. kind of hard to tell.
also, if I need her out of the house for a few minutes, like the other day I had contractors doing some repairs inside. I will tie her up for no more than half hr. But when I do this she will cry constantly and just want to come inside. so not sure if that is good for her or not. but not sure of other option?
She also has been crying in her crate, only in the mornings. and only at between 4 and 5 am...before daylight savings she would always wake up and cry at about 6 am which is when I get up anyway. im wondering if there is a way to keep her from waking up 2 hrs before the normal time. we had a routine. now its thrown off and im not sure how to get it back on track.
should I start trying to ween her off the kennal? when she crys at 4 am i wake up, take her out to potty, feed her and she goes back to sleep if i leave her out. if i put her back she keeps crying and smashing at the kennal.


sorry for the long slightly off topic post...

Ryan.
ZIA.

[Dutchringgirl]

I am a big fan of long lines. Go out with the long line and do a million recalls and rewards. Over and over. At different times too, when they are deep in concentration or just plodding along, they must come to you no matter what. I did that with Thalie and she can be in a full on run after a squirrel and I call her and the brakes go on and she runs right back to me. recall and leave it are invaluable. We just got gerbils and my worry was Sadie, but a strong "leave it" and she backs right off. We even have them in the ball on the floor and she will stay put. Now, If sadie can do it............anyone can LOL

[Groc352]

We have been teaching "leave it" for quite some time now. pretty much since we got her when I feed her in the morning and at night. we are now trying to transfer "leave it" to tasty treats on the floor, toys, and anything else that is interesting. and it works. she sits and waits untill i say ok.
I think it is working with the cats also. When she starts after a cat if i tell her leave it, she will usually turn around and come to me. not sure if thats right but its keeping her from messing with the kitties.

So you think I should continue teaching her to come when called, when she is on a long lead? or do it off the lead?

[Raven]

Always on-lead. She has to get conditioned. If she's off-lead and you issue a command and she doesn't comply, what's your back-up?

With your dog, you may be able to start with a long lead for recall. I prefer a short lead for starters with mine and work up incrementally and after proofing. (I also don't use the word "come" as it has no verbal punch.) I also teach non-verbals for everything, including "come."

As previously stated. "come" and "leave it" are the important and invaluable commands. Just because she's pretty good at it doesn't mean it's "in the vault" and she's reliable. Keep doing what you're doing with big parties when she complies; incrementally add freedom--but don't be quick to assume it's reliable, keep testing; then add distractions with each level.

IMHO, she's too young (and too new to you as well) to be reliable in important commands, so yes...push it home. You're allowing her to be successful in training--a good thing--and taking stages of training in steps will take time but will give her the tools she needs.

[Raven]

P.S.: Once you proof her at a level/stage on-lead and you think she's reliable, you can test off-lead as long as the test is appropriate to the level. Do it so she doesn't equate: if I'm on-lead then...and if I'm off-lead then....To her, it should all end up the same. Leads are just your tool. Make sense?

[HeatherH]

This has already been said probably but here goes.

Leave it command. But really you need to sit back and watch a little to figure out what they're doing. I'd stop aggressive behaviour in both of them.

I have a cat as well as a DS. I do tell him (DS) to leave her (cat). She will instigate too and play up the sympathy card. He has never laid a tooth on her but you'd think he ripped her open the way she screams at him. She knows that jumping on the bed he will too. Then she jumps and runs under the bed knowing full well he'll knock himself silly trying to climb under.

You think they don't know what they're doing, they do. They're laughing themselves silly. Because when we're not looking or sleeping the sit side by side not bugging each other.

Think of it this way. Kids will get along and figure things out till their parents walk in and they're trying to knock each other out.

Heather

[Groc352]

-update-

So we have been working the "leave it" command daily with everything from food to toys to the kitties.

It works for everything other than the cats. She sort of listens when we tell her to leave it(when going for a cat) but it dosnt seem to have the same affect as with food, treats and toys.

another development with one of the cats. It seems to only happen when my girlfriend who lives with me is home, one of the cats seems to get sort of....fed up with Zia. and the cat will chase the dog!! so much so that the dog goes and hides behind my gf. its sort of funny to see since the dog is 65lbs and the cat is like 5lbs. but I worry that the cat might take it too far and tear up zias face with her claws. or that zia will take it too far and bite the cat.

so far it really just seems like they all just play with each other and get along. there are plenty of times where we are all sitting on the couch together. (2 cats and dog and me and gf) gets a lil crowded! but everyone gets along as long as there calm.

I have been thinking about getting a webcam to set up in the house so that I can sort of check up on the anmials while at work to see what REALLY goes on while were away. anyone else ever done this?

Also, the cats have plenty of places to escape the dog. there is a cat door to the basement where Zia can never go, and we also put up a few shelves on a wall for them to get up off the floor. and got a kitty tower for them to hide and play away from ground/doggy level.

[simbathedog1]

I don't know about cats, but the leave it command has stopped simba from attacking my vacuum cleaner, broom, and snow shovel!!