bloodlines?

[karenz]

So I've been trying to learn more about history of the ds and bloodlines. Since I am experimenting with Xander and what I would like to do with him and since I have been reading on this forum and other sites, can anyone help with bloodlines and which ones are good for different things. I want to do something with Xander. He is smart and the training is fun. But if certain bloodlines are bred for certain things I would like to know more about this. I have been reading that these breeders or bloodlines are bred for police work and these are bred for protection and multi purpose and agility and these are bred for this and that. I would love to know about bloodlines and which ones have more of this drive or that. Maybe that would help me decide what is best for us.

[Raven]

I'd start with what you know about Xander--what are the things that he seems to have a natural propensity for?

Thor likes different things, but I'd have to say that scent work is his favorite. He's stellar at it and you can tell he just loves it. He gets to use his brain and get a work out.

[karenz]

I'm sure these dogs can be taught to do just about anything. I haven't done enough yet to know what Xander has a natural propensity for. I was just curious about the bloodlines as far as are certain bloodlines better at certain things. I've been reading a lot since I have decided to try to find something for us to do. If bloodlines don't really effect what the dogs are better at then I would like to know that. It just seems from reading threads, posts, other breeders websites and what they say that there dogs are bred for, that maybe it does make a difference. I have completely decided against bite work. I was talking to a co worker yesterday about his gsd that he did bite work with and now he seems to have a very aggressive dog. His wife is scared to death of it. Obviously he didn't have the experience and knowledge to be doing that. And I know I don't either. Just mostly a curiosity thing about the bloodlines though. Thought it might give me a direction.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

I don't know a whole lot about specific lines, but someone once told me looking at pedigrees sort of gives an idea of what each line was bred to do. A lot of DS will have KNPV backgrounds somewhere in their history, but more recently you could tell, for example, if both parents were agility champions, or had titled in nose work. However, I'd want to see that same sort of titling for a few generations, not just recently. The higher the title could be an indication of talent, training, or dedication by the owner.

From what I understand of breeding from a sport perspective, temperament and certain genetic aspects (full bite, strong nerves, fast) and health are what you want to breed in, so you'll see a lot of lower titles (BH-IPO1) but the stronger the dog, the more talented, the more higher titles you'll see. One of my friends has a Mal from multiple high titled French Ring dams and sires throughout his pedigree. With her training, he's going to within the next year title the highest possible in French Ring and PSA (he's one win away from fully titling PSA3 and got his Bervet and FR1 in one day). Again, though, it's all down to genetics and training to bring out certain aspects and develop them.

I've had to study a lot of bite work in helping H. Bite work does not equal an aggressive dog. Bite work at it's foundation is about fostering nerves, not aggression. I've seen IPO3 dogs refuse to bite a man in a suit because he wasn't wearing the sleeve they were used to. I've also seen IPO3 dogs refuse to bite men. Part of sport, in my opinion, as much as people rave it's about teaching "real world skills" you're also creating equipment oriented dogs. Dogs that won't bite unless there's equipment because it's the equipment that activates their want to bite, not the man in the suit. Basically it's a trained reaction. In bite training there's a point where you can start to teach the dog it's not the suit, it's the man you want, which you'll see more in personal protection training, but it's fairly rare in sport.

There's a lot of bad trainers who don't know how to teach proper bite work and make aggressive dogs because they move too fast and start training the dog in defense or train a dog who should never be trained (usually too nervy or doesn't have the heart for it). That's when you see dogs become aggressive. Bite work should always be fun, made a game, until a certain point, then that's (usually far down the training path) where the dog learns to fight the decoy - fight as in hang in there - to get it's reward, but again, the goal is to keep them in defensive drive for a short amount of time and transition them back into prey drive, so the dog isn't feeling threatened the entire time.

As for breeding, I think, DS are fairly utilitarian, so as for what to do, looking at Xander's breeding and also what he likes to do will help you decide. If he's fast fly ball or agility are fun, or there's also dock diving if he likes water, and nose work…. Is he AKC or UKC registered?

If ANY of this is incorrect, I'd love a more experienced opinion to set me straight. Like I said, I only know things from a sport perspective where you're breeding for "hardiness".

[karenz]

Owned by Hendrix: That was very informative. So certain lines ARE bred for certain tasks. I love the obedience stuff. Xander loves water but wouldn't get in the pool. I had originally planned on dock diving but guess Xander has different plans. Agility sounds fun and I did watch some flyball videos. I just think I'm to new at this to really be able to assess Xander's strong points and what he would be good at. And while I was researching different things to do I ended up reading about bloodlines for this and that and just wanted to learn more about Xander's bloodlines in hopes of that helping me make the right choice.

Xander is UKC registered. I didnt think ds could register with the AKC? Am I wrong on this? I have papers from UKC for 4 or 5 generations back.

I'm just trying to learn as much as I can. In the meantime we are just working hard on obedience and focus since obviously that will be the foundation for whatever we decide to do.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Just recently AKC acknowledged the DS and you can register them as part of the FS(S?) registry. In my biased opinion UKC is better as they have cooler events. Lol. You can also title him in just obedience in IPO too. I think they recently opened it to titling in obedience and tracking without bitework, each a separate title. Agility is a lot of fun! See if there's a class around you to try. Lots of thinking for Xander and running and jumping. A lot of sports don't necessarily need certain lines if you're not going to go pro. I personally am curious if there's a certain line of DS better for agility, because I'm only familiar with sport/working lines. You should try a class or two and see what Xander really likes. I think as long as he's having fun you'll have a blast.

I tried to plan out H's "career" (as in all the sports I wanted to do) and wouldn't you know it the boy loves tunnels and jumps but won't jump through a circle to save his life. Or run towards teeter-totters unless there's a bite-y thing at the end. So agility may be a no go for us and I'm so disappointed... Until I find sheep he can try to herd.

[alspyce]

AKC does not accept UKC registry dogs into it FSS. It will accept FCI registered dogs.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Thanks Chris! Great catch. I meant to say AKC is an option if not registered with UKC, as they are now accepting DS. You're right, can't cross register AKC/UKC. My bad!

[Mark77]

AKC does not accept UKC registry dogs into it FSS. It will accept FCI registered dogs.

And FCI are primarily show dogs where as UKC/KNPV have stronger working lines.