breed selection

[miloginger123]

Hello. Wondering if a Belgian malinois would be right for my home. I am not competitive in any ringsports, but am very active in other dog sports. I am looking for a dog with an off switch, that can rest when needed. And a confident dog, not a crazy soft dog, a dog that will get along with being indoors while I am at work.

[miloginger123]

I am single. Never plan on human children. Not looking for a snuggle dog. I enjoy watching dogs work. And training animals of all types is in my blood.

[miloginger123]

I guess the point I am getting at is, I am not a compettive bite work person. I have a job. And cannot dedicate every waking moment to my dog. I have heard that this is a recipe for failure. All malinois homes must be active in ring, and must not have a life outside of the dog.
Im I, a suitable home for a malinois?

[Raven]

Given the information you've provided, I'd say a BM is not for you and that you already knew that. They don't have an off-switch. And, again based on what you've said, I'm not sure that any working dog would be a good fit.

As for a confident dog, that isn't solely dependent upon the breed of dog.

Not sure what you mean by training animals is in your blood.

Your posts are curious.

[Stacy_R]

Im I, a suitable home for a malinois?

According to what you have posted, the short answer would be "No."

And I ditto Sharon's comments...

[LyonsFamily]

What sports do you compete in? How often to do train/trial? I think many can do fine in a very active sport home that doesn't include any of the bite sports if the mental and physical needs are met. I haven't worked Elli in bite work in a long time (hoping to get back into PSA soon) and Odin doesn't do it at all, but I am at a training center 3 times a week for a couple of hours working on agility, nosework, or obedience and we have 5 acres and train at home too, weather permitting for some of the sports.

The off switch would depend on the dog, the lines, the age, and the amount of work you put in. If you adopt an older dog from a foster home that knows the dog well, you may find something that will work for you. Most of the DS owners on here don't even compete in non biting sports, so it can be done.

[miloginger123]

I oftenly hear that a bm is not for anybody at all that does not actively compete in bitework sports. And some people find it a disgrace to not compete in these sports, considering the breed is built for bite work sports.
I am not sure what not having an off switch has to do with the topic of not working in those sports. I have met many breeders claining they have off switches. I have met a few that rest indoors, given they get the attention the individual dog requires. I understand each dog is different, but I believe a breeder who knows his lines well can find me a more suitable bm. And I have even seen a few cases of mals successfully homed with average Joe pet owners. Families with children and non competitive owners.
I plan on working. Just no bite sports, and I work for a living. How often I trail depends on what each dog enjoys and how often the dog can trial due to injuries and trialingbbreaks. Ibbelieve training itself, regardless of what's being trained, should be an everyday occurance. I may not have 4 consequitive hours every single day to work my dog. But I oftenly have full entire days off to do as a please.

[Stacy_R]

Malinois are very driven dogs who need a job. A Mal is not going to do well in a home where he is at home by himself for 8+ hours a day while you work. A Mal is not a lab or a Golden Retriever who is going to be okay with a 30-minute to 1-hour walk once or twice a day during the week and then a weekend's worth of work. You will end up with a very frustrated (and destructive) dog. Bottom line, if you don't get home until 7 o'clock at night, don't expect to be in bed by 10. You certainly can bring a Mal into your home, but understand that these dogs do require more work than your average breed. If you decide to get a Mal, you will have to order your life around the dog...for your sanity and for his.

[miloginger123]

Stacy, this is underrstood. I came across the same advice before i was introduced to the border collie. But wehat about the rest of us. What if you are a home that is competitive? Yet still unsure if you are suitable?
As in you own multiple flyboxes, a dock diving pool you saved a couple grand to have built in your yard. You find training and watching your dog work to be far more interesting than having a cuddle couch potatoes dog. You spend at least 3 hours-10 hours daily being with your dogs. All you enjoy is training. And you are looking into a dog that is going to be perfect for this lifestyle?

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

I think it is possible to find a "low key" mal more in AKC lines (and if you want to compete AKC events I highly recommend having a registered AKC dog anyways). But mals are driven, in every essence of the word, and not just by energy. Time devoted to them means a lot of time training (everything), moving (even pets) and giving them sufficient puzzles. They can exists as house pets, but one with enough drive will eventually start to show behavior problems. They are super smart and driven, which means if they wanna eat your couch they will. Leaving them out is not recommended for long periods of time, until maybe older (like 4-7), and even then... There may be casualties. Think of a BC times 20x.

Also an "off switch" can mean different things to different breeders.... I think you want a dog that can work then chill with you at home right? Not saying its impossible, and certainly if the dog is satisfied and taught, but you're still looking at an interesting time if left alone and out. Also, keep in mind aggression - this is a working breed. They are agile, athletic, strong, super smart, driven, and can be protective. Think of how this plays into your household life. They aren't BC who, in most cases, can be said to generally like people. These are dogs who are known for when being in drive being "crazy". Also, they are pure land sharks as puppies. Prepare to have holes in everything and a pup hanging off you for a while. I'm told by my BM owning friends it's essentially insane until about 2. If you're interested in a BM I would suggest looking at the ABMR as they will have a wide range of dogs that are still very capable of doing non-bite sport work. The ones past the puppy stage would probably be easier to "jump into".

Just keep in mind what you know from BC will be amplified even with a lower drive mal. They are wonderful to watch work but I've had a lot of handlers tell me they aren't for the weak of heart and a lot wished that they had worked with a few first. For the right trainer they are perfect and for many they are just too "high" to handle.

[miloginger123]

Dogs under 2 years, new dogs, or unreliable dogs are leashed to me at all times. Chewing doesn't happen if I'm watching. It I am not available, dogs are penned in a outdoor kennel run that I have indoors. Or crated.
Akc lines, as in conformation bred bm?
Yes. A dog that can work, with an off switch. When you say chill with, it means we are done for the day, kennel up or settle. When my dogs are indoors, they hear the word settle, and do just that. We don't work indoors at home. Home time is settle time, chew a toy, nap. I also make a specific ticking noises that the dogs then associate work with. The dogs do well with these clear signals.
I have not seen much aggression so much in the breed. Would you say bm are aggressive? I'm not taking a nip of excitement while working as a bite. If I child is running around a dog, and gets bitten due to high prey drive, its not aggression, in my mind. My lifestyle welcomes a mouthy pushy dog. Gets me all excited to see it in a good dog. Not a fearful aggressive one though.
I am hoping a breeder can help me find a pup I can build into a confident reliable dog. I don't need a dog that's out looking for a fight. I have met gsds that will kill a person over a ball. And dogs that will attack the thing nearest to his mouth should a person drop a book. I don't do bite sports.. I'm just looking for a balanced dog that is right for me and my petty sports.
I already have holes in clothes, nothing new.
I'm just looking for that one. But so unsure.

[miloginger123]

Seems like the idea of adopting is out there. Do you worry about not knowing genetics, health issues?
I also won't neuter. Feed raw. Don't over vaccinate. I have my beliefs. Not many rescues would agree with my beliefs.
Plus, I'm wanting a puppy in my life. I have the fever.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Mals aren't generally known for their off switch, just throwing that out there. The few mals I'm acquainted with use the "off" switch as a command and vibrate until they have the next command, calmly pace, or use it as time to plot revenge. Seriously. Again, this is all with extremely rigorous training these mals have been able to exist like this. My one trainer friends has a mal with what I could call high moderate drive, and he has too keep reminding his dog to platz to chill. Another spends his time upside down until he can figure out a way to mark his owner's stuff or generally do something random to her, like object guard her bed. And he's very highly titled. Another's mal used to be so dog aggressive until he hit 10 they couldn't let him be in public and another's is basically a pocket rocket on crack. She comes out of the crate running. You can see the common theme of highly trained, driven, smart.... Calm for a mal doesn't always equate to relaxed or chill, usually it's a pause while some other part of them is going a mile a minute until the next activity. I can count on one hand the number of mals I've ever met who have been truly relaxed when chilling.

One reason why I recommend AKC is because once you delve into the world of working mals, the chances to be sold a dog not fitted to what you want increases. These dogs are bred to work, work, work. Off switch doesn't happen. They will be crack heads ready to work. It is possible to find a lower drive one but that doesn't necessarily equate to off switches or anything else you may want. Also, not making a broad statement, but in general you'll find more working mals bred to be strong, sound, mouthy (which can relate to possessive and bite work but not necessarily bred to bite, as all dogs can be taught to bite) and do tasks with (high) drive. The AKC breeds will, again, in very broad generalizations, have temperaments that will generally be less high drive than a true working line. Not saying there aren't high drive AKC lines out there, but you'd have a better chance of finding a lower drive dog to fit your needs.

I use aggression to mean "negative human-reviewed response to stimuli", which can mean anything from a nip to an actual bite. In cases of mals, you're dealing with significant higher drives from other dog perspectives. Even a lower drive mal will have more drive in its paw than most dogs. Higher drives means more chances for "aggression" from triggering prey drive to falling into defense drive (and all the doggie responses that come with it). These higher drives makes it easier to teach them with rewards and do long and arduous jobs, but it comes with the payoff of having a dog always ready to go. The breed itself is protective which means possible complications in socialization and coupled with drives can pose an interesting training wrinkle. It's not known as a people loving dog, rather a dog with drives to take it through anything. Which is why we all ask how often you'll be training.

I usually don't count too much on what breeders say because I know they're trying to sell me and puppies are crap shoots anyways. There's one person I will ever trust fully when he says a dog is this and that and that's from my own experiences with him. So knowing the genetics is one thing, can give you a good idea of where a dog is headed but isn't always accurate. But having an adult with a known personality and flaws and behavior, especially when getting into a mal, would be higher on my priority list, but that's just me.

As it stands, I would say based on the mal handlers I know from all spectrum of drives, if you aren't willing to spend at least 3 hours of physical activity and at least 3-4 hours training a day, a mal would be like a mini tornado in your life. I've seen a fairly low drive mal break out of a 6x10 indoor kennel, pull everything out of the room's storage bins, then climb up the kennel and escape out the window (breaking it) because it wanted to. It was calm the entire time too. But if you feel like this breed will work for you, then I would advise waiting as long as it takes to find the perfect dog.

[Stacy_R]

Puppy fever is one thing, having a puppy is a completely different story (any puppy...let alone a Mal).

Here is a great video to watch... It is a 3.5 minute snippet into the life of a Mal puppy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXqNl5bTCMU

In any case, it sounds like you've pretty much made up your mind that you are going to get a Mal regardless. Best of luck.

[miloginger123]

Did to just show me a leerburg video?
Do you know that dog? He's quite a dog. Even in the mal world. I have my share of ME videos. Great stuff.
Stacy, you have to understand nobody just goes out out of nowhere and decides they just want a bm one day just because. It is only after Visits with the breed, meeting handlers, working with a few. All locally of course. Only after all this do they begin to ask other online handlers worldwide. Now if I'm not right for the breed I understand. I wont get one. But for now, hearing a mal needs a job and is not for weekend warrior owners... Well it doesn't help her much.
I am on the same page as Hendrix owner. Thank you for the insight to the breed.
Hendrix. Does my schedule sound suitable? If not I will not bother taking my plane ride to visit OT mals in Florida.
No work Mon, Tues, Wed, Sun. I can devote enyire day and night to dog. Meaning no kids, family. Im single, looking for male mals. Just me and the dog 6am til whenever I go to bed. 9-10pm.
But I work entire days Thursday and Friday. Meaning 6am -10 pm. And sat I work 8-5. Dog can come to work but very limited activity allowed. Just my hour lunch break once a day. And whatever training I can do while at work. Mainly recall work, place training, sits, downs.
No long jogs or extensive training Thursday and Friday.

Edit. Weather permitting I may ride bike to work Thursday Friday and Saturday. Dog can run along when over 2 years.

[miloginger123]

Also meetings happen! In that case dog would not have me around Thursday Friday and Saturday.
Is this acceptable?

[Raven]

Stacy, you have to understand nobody just goes out out of nowhere and decides they just want a bm one day just because.

Yes, they do. With mals and every other breed out there.


You've asked for opinions, they've been given.

[cordeliandemon]

to answer the original question, no. no you would not be a suitable home for a belgian malinois.
i had a border collie for 16 years, they cannot be compared in any way shape or form to a malinois in terms of behavior, demand or just about anything else other than at some point very VERY long ago they both shared ancestry with wolves, like every dog out there does.
border collies are extremely easy to train, people loving and eager to please anyone they meet, malinois are malinois.

you may aswell be trying to compare a tricycle to an artillery tank.
and id say any dog regardless of breed, especially a puppy as youre so eager to get, would psychologically suffer tremendously if they were left completely alone for 3 days every week. no it is not acceptable.

[miloginger123]

Raven and Stacy.
I'm sorry that people go out and grab any breed just because they can, and they ignore the fact the breed is not suitable for them. I'm not one of them. I'm not looking into IPO. But do want a dog for other sports. If for actual reasons you truly believe I shouldn't own this amazing breed. Pleasese state exactly why you know I'm not capable of working with one, and I will reconsider visiting a breeder. I'm looking for advice because I love the breed, and feel I have the right home for one. If not I won't get one. But I want real palpable reasoning to give up on my dream of owning a bm.

[Raven]

As I've said Gingerman, you solicited opinions, and you received them over and over from different members. If this continues, I will lock the thread.