"Crazy" question

[GSDNanny]

Seriously, I have a question from some of you who are experienced in the intuition that dogs exhibit in relation to human behavior. We all know about their abilities in scent, etc. But what I am wanting to know is do you believe they have a sense about people who are unstable, be it neurological or alcohol/drug induced? I realize that packs in the wild will extricate or even kill their weak and unstable members. Do they sense this in humans and further react?

I think most of those on this forum know that I have had German Sheps for nearly 50 years with having had nearly 200 rescue GSDs & a few DSs thru here in the past (not anymore). Not once have I ever had a situation where one of the dogs bit anyone, not one time. I would always circumvent any possibility though.

We have lived in the same home now for 24 years and have a neighbor who is mid 60's, mentally unstable, a serious hoarder and a nosey body. She has started frequently coming over which disturbs me and my family but we try to be cordial. Last month as she was leaving, my little cattle dog took a nip at her heel but no bite. A heeler, so this is her nature, right esp since I do herding with her. Then last week, the neighbor bangs loud on the kitchen window where I was cooking supper and I went to the front door to let her in to get some ice (she doesnt have a frig) in an igloo. <GRRRR!> She is loud and obnoxious type, as wide as she is tall at about 5'. The GSD met her nicely as she greets everyone, but the neighbor barely made it in when the heeler nailed her on the outer thigh. I mean a full bite but only one small slight puncture wound, no blood tho. Schutzhund folks would be impressed BUT......I was totally caught off guard, blown away! This little heeler goes everywhere with me, loves all people, all dogs, critters, lets the grandkids wrestle and share their food. A real sweetheart. Very smart, great companion dog.

Now, do you think she recognizes this woman is 'touched'?? Did my heeler recognize the stress this person induces on my home or do they have an extra sense about mental unstability in humans?

I know this is not about my DS, but it just as well could be but I know she is not trusting so I alleviate any potential scenario with her. I thought I could read my dogs well and evidently I could use some input. What do you all think?

PS: The neighbor came over a few days later, pulled down her pants in my front yard to show me the bruise!!! Yeh, she IS definitely touched!!!

Denise

[Marjolein]

I think it's mainly the different body language these people give...? Dogs are way more sensitive to this.
I've had to stop my dog from attacking some drunk and/or slightly people...

[leih merigian]

Denise, I wouldn't be surprised at all if your heeler is picking up on your own feelings about this person.

I've been buzzed enough times around my GSD and she never changed in her behavior towards me whether I was or wasn't .

Then again, who's to know if nustso folks are putting out differnt chemicals than "normal" people do?

BTW, while I sure am not shedding any light on your inquiry, I am sending you tons of sympathy about your neighbor! You seem to be very nice to her, IMO. I feel your pain

[vneerland]

Maybe a little bit of both, Denise. I am sure the dogs pick up how 'thrilled' you are to see your neighbor darken your doorway yet again. But there is definately a sense about (some) dogs that pick up on things that we did not notice yet. A looooong time ago, I was talking to an aquaintance, with my then juvenile (9 mos) dog on leash. He kept staring off down the path were we were standing, and hackeled and growled at the barely distinguishable shape in the distance. I tried to get him to quit, but he insisted. It was ebarassing, so I tried harder and harder, to no avail. Only when the person, a man, eventually passed us, could I see what my dog had picked up from at least 100 yards. The man was a resident at the local mental institution, and for reasons still unclear to myself to this day, the dog had noticed a difference and reacted to it. True story! I swear. Later in his life, the same dog had an issue with a houseguest and collegue of my husbands. The man could not reach for his beer, could not go to the restroom, could not shift, without a deep ominous growl from my dog. I had to just put the dog up and apologized profusely, frustrated that he had turned so seemingly aggressive.
That collegue was arrested by the MP's a few weeks later and charged with rape. From then on, the dog in question got to make the ulitmate decision about my relationships. You'd have to pass his 'taste' test. If not.......

[GSDNanny]

Thanks for the responses and your story also Judith. I do indeed believe they have intuition, extra sense, perception, whatever, about human personalities. If this had been one isolated incident, then yeh, maybe just a fluke. But my heeler nipped her once before, never ever barked or alerted either time, mind you, just went for the flesh!! And I might add, the target was substantial enough she could easily get a mouthful (oh my, did I just say that?!!:)) Anyway, needless to say, the neighbor is NOT welcome back in my home esp when she called me 2 days later to say that absolutely EVERYONE she had talked to (and she had probably pulled her pants down to show the bruise to) said she should sue me. Yeh. But she told me she would never ever think about doing that. Yeh, right. Why mention it then? Oh well, we will just see, but lesson hard-learned either way.

I usually put the dogs away normally when new people come over because it is quite intimidating with a few large dogs inside even tho they are normally well mannered. The hard part is getting my hubby to remember to put them away when I am not home and visitors come. He doesnt 'get' the doggie shuffle thing very well. But I hate to keep them crated. Not that we have that much company. My inlaws are not 'dog folks' so they dont come visit often, if at all (a true blessing indeed!!). I've never trusted or liked people who dont like dogs. )

Judith, I totally agree about trusting my dogs' judgment in people.
I too have always watched my dogs carefully to see how they react to different people. Usually the people whom they distrust or dont like are indeed the same ones I dont. So, there ya are!! Bindi just keyed in on my "oh heck, the wacko neighbor is here!"

Denise

[syzygy]

I agree that the dogs pick up on behavior that is not quite right. My less-demonstrative girl, who was somewhat shy as a pup, was with me at a lure course in Colorado and had been fine with the people there all weekend. She is never social but is tolerant as long as you don't push her. She really does not like people or dogs and prefers to be left alone. The last morning we were there, though, a very loud neighbor in the camping area came staggering up to the porta-potty that was close to my trailer while this dog and my older (VERY social) girl were out loose for their early-morning potty. This was in a large open pasture. When Darrow got close to me, this dog suddenly went charging up to him, stood right in front of him, did a great imitation of a bark-and-hold, and would not let him move. I was shocked. Darrow just mumbled "I need to pee" and tried to move forward--fortunately kept his hands out of reach. My dog refused to let him move until I called her off. Turns out he had been on a rather wild drinking binge the night before and was extremely hung over. Maybe not crazy--but this dog who was very shy around strangers took it upon herself that he was impaired somehow, and thus too close to her territory. She would have none of it. i have been watching her more closely ever since, and I trust her judgment a lot more now .

Ellisa

[Marjolein]

There are dogs who are better at this than others tho... we have build a house ourselves, and in doing so we had a lot (I mean a LOT!!) of expensive building stuff lying around. Since the house wasn't done yet we could not close it properly either. So we were totally depending on our dogs, Dingo did a great job, we had no fence but somehow he figured out our boundries in about a day or 2. After that he would let all the " friendly" people in (neighbours, relatives, helping hands), and the bad ones too if I insisted, but he would clearly show who could not be trusted, he would guard them all day. And if they were to leave with a tool or bag or whatever in their hands, I had to come and free them He would not let them go off our property untill I said it was ok.
On the other hand, Ivil likes eveyone, and only get's pissed if they are really not right, like bangin' on the window or something like that. Once Ivil was sleeping really deeply, dreaming very intense I guess. My boyfriend had arrived but she had not noticed, suddenly she woke up as he was petting her and went straight for his leg as she was sqeeuzing her jaw down she must have smellt who it was and stopped imidiately, started doing the submissive thing Just a little bruise, but Dingo would never make such a mistake