random question

[katm4110]

So after way too much coffee I found myself up in the middle of the night bored out of my mind so I was googling dutch shepherd stuff. (I'm fascinated with reading about the breed now) Why do so many people (mostly on GSD sites and forums) say that a DS is just a brindle malinois? I thought they looked pretty different especially the ears. On a side note I've noticed a lot of GSD fanatics think dutchies and mals are these high strung, short fused, mentally unstable, maniac dogs. Not the case with mine!

[LyonsFamily]

There's a lot of debate about the DS/mal breed separations. It can depend on the lines and KNPV vs. FCI bred dogs as well. A lot of breeders still use malinois in DS breedings, depending on what traits are being looked for. Most DS will have Malinois is their pedigrees somewhere. The question is just how recently the dog(s) show up. Done correctly, it adds to the gene pool and can produce better working dogs with a more sound structure. It all depends on what someone is looking for in a dog.

There are quite a few breeders on this forum that can better answer the genetic side to things and the history of the breed, and a lot of it was addressed in the forum earlier under this thread: http://www.dutchshepherdforum.com/viewt ... is+brindle .

In my experience, I personally think the Dutch are a little broader, have larger heads and settle in the home better, but have a bit of a harder hit in ringsports. There has been a notable different in the dogs I have had experience with, but this is also dependent on the genetic backgrounds.

I could find a dog of each breed that were very very similar, as well as Malinois displaying the traits I think are most common to the DS, it just depends on what each particular breeder was going for. I think breeders in my area are more commonly breeding for a DS with those traits. With AKC recognition and increased popularity, the mals have had more of a precise physical standard lately, and that's where the biggest difference is notable, not with the working dogs bred solely for a job.

And honestly, the Malinois and Dutch Shepherds are high strung maniac dogs, and can be unstable and short fused in the WRONG environment. That's why good breeders, as well as the ABMCR and NADSR try so hard to pre-approve proper homes for placing the dogs. There are a lot of American bred German Shepherds now that any pet owner could handle, and they see these high drive dogs and think they're monsters. My DS is a monster compared to the English setters I've grown up with. I prefer to think of them as trainable monsters.

[Dutchringgirl]

When I was doing Ring, the DS had much harder hits than the Mals, the body compsition is different too, the DS males were much bigger boned than the Mals. The DS do have a better off switch then the Mal, My mal would NEVER sit still but my DS's will pass out as soon as I stop moving. Sadie is more of a maniac thatn Thalie and I think would have huge problems in a different home, she is a bit of a maniac. Thalie is a super quiet DS.

[katm4110]

Read the past posts about this, very interesting! Are dutch shepherds ever bred for pets or do they always breed them for work or sport? I now feel even more lucky to have Stella... if we're calm she's calm... when we're active she's active. She is pretty anxious in new enviornmemts but nothing I would consider crazy.... then again I really have nothing to compare her to!

[Dutchringgirl]

I would not recomend DS"s for pets for joe dog owner. They are too high drive. There are the quiet ones out there but its still a crap shoot.

[katm4110]

I would not recomend DS"s for pets for joe dog owner. They are too high drive. There are the quiet ones out there but its still a crap shoot.

I will admit some of the stories I read made me a little nervous when comsidering the adoption but just based the decision on Stella not the breed... and her being 3 made me pretty confident that what you see is what you get. I don't think she's from any spectacular working line... she has dew claws? any way someone said most reputable breeders have those removed from the puppies...... I'd love another one some day when the kids are older... would Stella's awesome behavior make an impression on a DS puppy? Now I'm totally intrigued about her past and what she was like as a puppy.

[Christie M]

I would not recomend DS"s for pets for joe dog owner. They are too high drive. There are the quiet ones out there but its still a crap shoot.

I will admit some of the stories I read made me a little nervous when comsidering the adoption but just based the decision on Stella not the breed... and her being 3 made me pretty confident that what you see is what you get. I don't think she's from any spectacular working line... she has dew claws? any way someone said most reputable breeders have those removed from the puppies...... I'd love another one some day when the kids are older... would Stella's awesome behavior make an impression on a DS puppy? Now I'm totally intrigued about her past and what she was like as a puppy.

My opinion is that they are a working breed first and those individuals that are bred should show the characteristics of that as most important. There are always some that show up in a working litter that are mellow and will also make awesome pets. But I think that breeding for that purpose just waters down the population in general - and results in more dogs in shelters because they can't do the job they were created for.

Per dew claws - most rear dewclaws are removed. There is a big movement to leave front dew claws intact. They are attached by many tendons and serve a function in balance and turning while in motion.

I'm glad that Stella found her awesome fit. She was probably too much for someone previously....who should have gotten a Maltese but "just couldn't get over the pretty stripes." When I was active in rescue, I knew of MANY Dutch Shepherds who were being surrendered with names like "Cuddles" and "Precious." For some reason (probably a lot to do with their owners treating them like kittens), the dogs weren't quite living up to their name.

[katm4110]

My opinion is that they are a working breed first and those individuals that are bred should show the characteristics of that as most important. There are always some that show up in a working litter that are mellow and will also make awesome pets. But I think that breeding for that purpose just waters down the population in general - and results in more dogs in shelters because they can't do the job they were created for.

Per dew claws - most rear dewclaws are removed. There is a big movement to leave front dew claws intact. They are attached by many tendons and serve a function in balance and turning while in motion.

I'm glad that Stella found her awesome fit. She was probably too much for someone previously....who should have gotten a Maltese but "just couldn't get over the pretty stripes." When I was active in rescue, I knew of MANY Dutch Shepherds who were being surrendered with names like "Cuddles" and "Precious." For some reason (probably a lot to do with their owners treating them like kittens), the dogs weren't quite living up to their name.

My boys would drive a mellow dog INSANE! I really want to let her do agility at this local kennel club but have to make sure she can behave herself around other dogs first. If she could get over the fact that there are other dogs around I bet she would really enjoy agility especially with the winter months coming up and outside play time being more limited!

She is a perfect fit for us. I may have been a little niave in getting a dutch shepherd and can now see how with the wrong one things could have gone horribly... but she's the exception to the rule and is an amazing first dog for us. I've learned so much since getting her and really feel like I have a better understanding of dogs in general. Other then making her smell like a muffin and painting her nails.... I try not to treat her too much like a kitten LOL (that cracked me up)

She has front and rear dew claws infact on one of her back paws she has 2! Why are the rear claws removed?

[vneerland]

Per dew claws - most rear dewclaws are removed. There is a big movement to leave front dew claws intact. They are attached by many tendons and serve a function in balance and turning while in motion.

Movement? See, I live in a different world, it seems.
I have never ever had the front dew claws removed. Rear ones (have not had any yet) would be a different story, I would remove those.
In Europe the front dewclaws are always left. Always. The breed standard was vague on that point, since they should have specified 'rear' when they said they did not want dewclaws there. The problem lies in the translation. ' Hubertusklauw' is actually reserved for the rear claws only, unlike here, where it refers to any, front or back, with one word: dew claw. It is no longer legal (in some or all countries in Europe, not sure) to remove the rear dewclaws unless it is for medical reasons. Quite stupid (to wait for the sh*t to hit the fan) but it goes along with the ban on ear cropping and tail docking over there. The front claws absolutely are useable to grab with. They belong on our brindles. Not just my opinion, but also the breed standards.