Darko Update - DNA Test Results!

[silberlied]

For those who weren't around for my first post here, I adopted a 4 month old puppy of unknown lineage and assumed he was a GSD and Old English Mastiff mix. Several people (police dog trainers, dutch shepherd owners, etc) began asking if he was a Dutch Shepherd, so I began to look into the breed, which brought me to this forum. Opinions were inconclusive, and the only thing I knew for sure was that my puppy was some sort of Shepherd or Shepherd mix. Australian, German, Belgian, Dutch? Vets, trainers, and groomers all agreed Shepherd. I decided to buy a Wisdom Panel DNA test and know for certain.

So here are the results:



No shepherd anywhere. What?

Some other possible breed matches were Kerry Blue Terrier (?) and Staffordshire Terrier, so maybe some Pit in there somewhere. Here are some pictures of him now at 9 months old, 50 pounds. He's getting bigger every day.









I know that Dutch Shepherds are not included in the registry used by Wisdom Panel, so perhaps that is why no Shepherd is showing up. I suppose it's possible he doesn't have Shepherd blood, but everyone that knows him says this is very unlikely. I was at least expecting Mal or Aussie to show up somewhere. The Newf and Boxer side makes sense, though. We totally see it in his face and explains why his ears never stood up all the way. What do you guys think?

P.S. He's not a hound.

[Mobil]

Wisdom panel is shit, IMO. I know of someone who had a purebred, papered GSD and did one for shits and giggles and it came back with something ridiculous like poodle in there as part of his mix.

Sorry you wasted your money. I think he's adorable no matter what he is. I love his ears.

[silberlied]

I don't think I wasted my money. You have to understand how genes work to really get much out of it, and I do. We believe the Newfoundland and Boxer are quite accurate, as he's beginning to look a lot like our friend's Newf/Akita/Lab in the face, and his trainer says he's got a little boxer hiding inside as far as his foot etiquite goes.

I did the test to determine what his most dominant breeds were for conversations sake. Now we know a little something and are speculating about the shepherd in him. It's possible your friend's sample was contaminated. We put Darko in quarantine for a day before we took the sample. Clean water dish, no contact with other dogs, etc. They can probably get a re-test done.

[silberlied]

I don't think I wasted my money. You have to understand how genes work to really get much out of it, and I do. We believe the Newfoundland and Boxer are quite accurate, as he's beginning to look a lot like our friend's Newf/Akita/Lab in the face, and his trainer says he's got a little boxer hiding inside as far as his foot etiquite goes.

I did the test to determine what his most dominant breeds were for conversations sake. Now we know a little something and are speculating about the shepherd in him. It's possible your friend's sample was contaminated. We put Darko in quarantine for a day before we took the sample. Clean water dish, no contact with other dogs, etc. They can probably get a re-test done.

[Mobil]

I've heard of far more than one instance of inaccurate wisdom panels.
But I'm sure yours was done perfectly and is accurate, and I'm happy you seem to be pleased with the result.

[simbathedog1]

Geez. Nice slam. Lighten up.

[Mobil]

Geez. Nice slam. Lighten up.

Lighten up? I didn't slam a thing. I am happy you are pleased, I said. And I am. Congrats on the DNA panel.

[Stacy_R]

He is handsome whatever he is! It's so hard to hazard a guess at what is in a dog's genetic history, especially from photos. He is gorgeous.

[johninny]

i vote for him having DS in him: some photos - like when his ears are more or less UP - look more DS, but mainly it was the storm-watching video you posted some time ago about which i commented that his character/personality is so great. he was so attentive and looking/asking for signs of direction from you; that struck me as very DS, particularly when speaking of a young puppy. that screamed DS personality to me.

in any case, such a good pup you have!

[silberlied]

No need to squabble. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I've stated mine, and honestly I'm not so insecure that someone on the internet will make me feel any type of way about how I spend money in regards to my dog. I appreciate everyone's kind words, however.
I will say my experience with Wisdom Panel was a positive one and I recommend it if you have an open mind and no serious expectations. You also get an estimate of how much your puppy will weigh (based on DNA, not breed average), so it can be useful when choosing correct food, crates, collars, beds, etc. We now know Darko won't get over 50-70 pounds, so huge relief that he will still fit in our convertible.

Only thing disappointing about Wisdom Panel is that their algorithms don't have the ability to detect breeds with a more diverse gene pool, like Dutch Shepherds, but the cool thing is that they also can't say for sure a dog is not a DS! We can fudge it a bit and say that the undetectable grandparent was the Dutch in him. I would be honored to have a DS mix. They seem to be such wonderful dogs. And really, does it matter if he isn't? Dog breeds are all just different combinations of the same genes. If he plays the part well, he can be whatever we want him to be.

I will have to dig up some more videos. This puppy is such a joy.

[simbathedog1]

OK. .. my misunderstanding. I guess I took it wrong. Sorry.

[Mobil]

We can fudge it a bit and say that the undetectable grandparent was the Dutch in him. I would be honored to have a DS mix. They seem to be such wonderful dogs. And really, does it matter if he isn't? Dog breeds are all just different combinations of the same genes. If he plays the part well, he can be whatever we want him to be.

Just out of curiosity, if it doesn't matter whether Darko is or isn't a Dutch Shepherd, why would you want to "fudge it" and say he is because he plays the part? No snark, genuinely curious.

I totally agree that it doesn't matter, but I get the impression from your posts that you desperately want him to be a DS. It won't change who he is, so I don't understand the whole fudging it thing.

He sounds like a great dog from all the things you've said about him!

[johninny]

Dusty, if it were me, i would say it is because if he looks DSish [ very DSish ] and acts like a DS, then filling in that missing gap mentally helps explain him and informs one of his needs, his interests, his potential.

[silberlied]

Thank you, John, you are correct!
My original plan, for instance, was to feed him large breed puppy food until he was around 2 years old and let him lie around the apartment resting his growing joints and nibbling frozen bananas all day. Now I'm confident that would just make him fat, since he's probably 90% grown, and we're switching him to raw and grain-free high-protein adult kibble and keeping him lean, busy, and exercised. Training will be an on-going process, as he's always in the mood to learn a new trick (or test mom's patience).

And Dusty, we never tell anyone he is a Dutch Shepherd because there is no way of knowing, just guessing. We do know that he has some sort of Shepherd in him, and Dutch Shepherd makes the most sense as far as his build and temperament. One of his grandparents had completely indistinguishable DNA, so we can't completely nix the possibility. The only problem I have with Wisdom Panel (that I fully understood before purchasing) is that their computer algorithms cannot detect breeds from a more diverse gene pool, i.e. the Dutch Shepherd. So many people see Darko and immediately want to know what breed he is. Now I can confidently say, Newfoundland, Boxer, Lab, and a sprinkling of terrier. If I'm not feeling talkative, he's just a Newfie mix (I ADORE Newfies and was ecstatic when his results came back). When everyone comments that he looks like a Shepherd mix, or asks if he has DS in him (yes, it does happen sometimes) we tell them we don't know for sure but we do think Dutch Shepherd is a good possibility. After all, your pups don't have papers either, yet here you are welcomed to the Dutch Shepherd forum.

I cannot stress enough that when I begged my boyfriend to drive us two hours away to some run-down rural SC shelter to pick up one of the stray Mastiff puppies on death row, I HAD NO CLUE WHAT THE HECK A DUTCH SHEPHERD WAS. I had never heard of the breed until our local master trainer (who trains DS, Mal, and GSD for protection and police work) saw Darko and told us about them. I told him he must be mistaken, because my boy is a Mastiff mix. It wasn't until other people started pointing to the breed that we really decided to look into it. I wanted a giant lazy bum of a drooly fluffy Old English Mastiff! I found Darko searching Mastiff on Petfinder. My boyfriend is the one who wanted a Shepherd, and we settled for a mix between the two. So no, I am absolutely not desperate to have a DS, just trying to be a good mom and research research research the best care for my puppy.

Even though Darko is obviously not purebred DS, I will be sticking around the forum, since there is so much good information and support. I also keep checking the rescue section in case somepuppy shows up in North Carolina. My boyfriend still wants his Shepherd puppy, and he's fallen for Darko's gorgeous brindle (who wouldn't?)

[Mobil]

I was not in any way trying to insinuate that you were not welcome in the forum. I don't think there's anyone here who would say, Welp, now that you know he's not Dutch, there's the door.

And if I felt that way, I certainly wouldn't have such nice things to say about your dog. Where did you get the idea that having papers has anything to do with anything? There are several here with mixes. Hell, mine could be mixes.

[Stacy_R]

And really, does it matter if he isn't? .....This puppy is such a joy.

Exactly! He's one lucky pup!!! Thank you for rescuing!

And as a P.S. Just out of curiosity, which shelter did you get him from? We pull from both NC and SC shelters...several of which are those "rural, run-down" ones.

[silberlied]

And as a P.S. Just out of curiosity, which shelter did you get him from? We pull from both NC and SC shelters...several of which are those "rural, run-down" ones.

It was the Humane Society of Pickens County in Liberty, SC. Very nice people.
Side note, I felt so bad their shelter is in such bad shape. I think they are raising funds to remodel now if anyone can spare some change.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Foothill ... 6632006547
Lots of heartworm positive dogs in need of love too when we were there. It was a shock, since we are pampered with our no-kill shelter in Charlotte.

I was not in any way trying to insinuate that you were not welcome in the forum. I don't think there's anyone here who would say, Welp, now that you know he's not Dutch, there's the door.

And if I felt that way, I certainly wouldn't have such nice things to say about your dog. Where did you get the idea that having papers has anything to do with anything? There are several here with mixes. Hell, mine could be mixes.

I think you are missing my point, so I will be a bit more direct. I created this post as a fun "hey guys, remember Darko? He's about 37% less mysterious than he was before." It was a follow up to my original post, and yes the possibility of DS is still there, whether I want it to be or not. At this point I'm not tallying the votes anymore, although I do pay attention to everyone's opinions. My comment towards you is that now I know more about Darko's heritage than you know about Mobil and Turbo's, yet you choose to criticize my guesses and means of discovery. I know that you do not think Darko is a DS, but I am perplexed why it is so important to call me out on entertaining the idea that he is, when you are doing just the same with your little ones.

I have to say, Dusty, when I first came to the forum I was happy to see another member with pups the same age as mine, with similar stories, similar mysteries, and cool as hell names to boot. Cars are my second hobby, after animal care *hoarding* and training. All our vehicles are turbocharged, but I must say we are partial to Castrol oils. Too bad you didn't find a puppy with a C on his chest! I'm joking, but really why the animosity towards me? Your dogs are beautiful and look DS to me, and they'd be just as beautiful if you figured out they were Pit/Husky/Cattle Dog or Boxer/Mal, just as Darko's the same handsome lump now as he was when I thought he was GSD/Mastiff. I've seen Dutches of all shapes and sizes now that I've started noticing the breed, and they do vary greatly in appearance. Someday I'll get a picture of Darko's buddy Diesel so everyone can tear on his big chest and airplane ears. His dad has no clue if he's really a DS, but that's the fun of it! Genetics work in super funky ways, so we honestly really can't tell anyone that wanders onto the forum that their dog isn't a DS just off pictures alone, just as we can't tell them they certainly do have a DS. Ever seen a brindle Cattle Dog/Shepherd mix? Easily could be mistaken as a Dutch.

If you are curious to know if yours might be mixes, I have an unused promo code I got from Wisdom Panel for $15 off that you can have. I know they are also running a promotion on their website right now for $15 off plus they donate $5 to charity. It's just a fun thing to know, and honestly when I got the results back I felt relieved. I used to think Wisdom Panel was a scam too, but I'm happy I eventually gave in and tried it. If your results come back mixed breed or something bonkers, you know that the babes are probably Dutch. But anyway, I'm talking too much again. I just think we should be nicer to each other.

[Mobil]

My comment towards you is that now I know more about Darko's heritage than you know about Mobil and Turbo's, yet you choose to criticize my guesses and means of discovery.

No, what you seem to have missed in my comments to you is that it is the reputation of the DNA testing that makes it so that you cannot count on the results of the testing. I'm not criticizing you. I'm criticizing a test known for being wildly inaccurate, and I shared that information with you to help you . you act as if this is some sort of contest or something. "I know more about my dog than you?" Really?

I know that you do not think Darko is a DS, but I am perplexed why it is so important to call me out on entertaining the idea that he is, when you are doing just the same with your little ones.

No, you are assuming I thought that. I did not call you out for entertaining the idea that he might be a DS, I asked out of curiosity why it seemed to be that you wanted so desperately for him to be labeled as a Dutch that you were willing to fudge the test results (about which you are so confident) when talking about it with other people in order to include DS in his ancestry. you said that. I asked what the motivation was.

At this point, though, I have to say, if you are confident that the test results are accurate, then I think Darko is probably not part Dutch Shepherd. If his parents are a Lab/unknown mix and a Boxer/Newfie/unknown mix, the chances of that unknown mix being a Dutch Shepherd mix, as rare as the breed is, is pretty frickin' small.

I have never been less than nice to you, ever. I have treated you with respect even if I was disagreeing with something you said, because I can separate ideas and/or statements from the person making them. If you feel that someone disagreeing with your words or ideas is an attack or criticism against you personally, then I don't know what to tell you, other than good luck with that.

thanks for the offer of a coupon on something you know I'd never use, though, that was nice of you. Also, I don't give a shit if Mobil and turbo are mixes or not, just like I didn't give a shit that Delco was a mix. My world doesn't revolve around finding was to sneak into the conversation that my dogs are Dutch shepherds.

[Mobil]

And yes, that last bit was snark, in case anyone wants to call me out for it.

[Asha]

Pfew, this used to be such a kid friendly site.
Congrats on the test, I definitely see the Newf!