Adopting and want to know what breed

[22troy]

Hi everyone,
We've been trying to adopt from a GSD rescue and a dog popped up that might work with our dog and cats. The rescue is saying it's a DS, but I'm not totally positive. I'm just curious if he actually could be. He is around 7 to 8 months old. Thanks in advance!

[Raven]

I must say, with the available shots, he looks more like a DS than many pictures posted in this section. Not saying he is one, just commenting. How have they described what they know of his temperament, etc. Do you know his age and weight? Although no one could state with certainty either way, any information you have could be useful.

[22troy]

Hi Raven,
Thanks for your response. I talked to the foster yesterday and he has a Malinois as well. He says that this guy's temperament is pretty close to his Malinois. He's very sweet and seems good with all animals big and small. He says he thinks he was dumped because he was probably the runt. He also says he will probably only be around 50 pounds, but right now at 7 or 8 months old he's not very big. He hops when he gets excited and he's protective of his backyard and will bark when he goes out there. That's pretty much all I know for now.

[LyonsFamily]

He looks like a DS or DS/malinois. I was going to ask if he was small. He looks compact for 7-8 months. He looks very similar to my Elli. Her adult weight was 42lbs and at 2 years old, you would've thought she was about 9-10 months. I've gotten her up to 50-55 with muscle packed on and a good raw diet, but she's still only about 21". She's a Dutch Shepherd according to UKC, and is AKC/PAL registered after picture IDs, but she's what fci folks would refer to as DS/X since there is some malinois 4 generations back or so and terv before that.

One thing to add, if he is a DS or DS/mal, and you have cats, it's going to be impossible to tell at 7-8 months if this dog is going to be good with them. He might be fine with them for the next year and then start maturing and have issues, so be prepared for that. It might be a life time of management.

[Raven]

since there is some malinois 4 generations back or so and terv before that

Things like this I find confusing. Isn't a dog considered "purebred" with three generations? Not doubting your statement at all, just what I believed was true.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Depends on the registry's definition. From what I've gathered it can be between 5-7-10 generations, if not more. Recent crosses as close as 4-5 generations takes time to "disappear" from the lines, depending on what they are and how similar they are to the genes in the dog's DNA. If they are crossed every few generations you are just adding more to the genes rather than restricting it.

A DSx is a DS crossed with mal within I believe 1-5 generations. A DS mix is one crossed with something other than mal, from what I understand.

[Raven]

Makes sense. Thanks.

[Dutchringgirl]

Looks like a DS to me! So beautiful

[LyonsFamily]

since there is some malinois 4 generations back or so and terv before that

Things like this I find confusing. Isn't a dog considered "purebred" with three generations? Not doubting your statement at all, just what I believed was true.

It's literally whatever you want it to be. There is no 100% across the board accepted rule as purebred. There are definitions that those long term in the breed have termed "acceptable," but it's still not an absolute. The loudest people seem to declare their opinion true and many just pick whatever the country of origin declares.

I consider my dogs Dutch Shepherds and that's it. How "pure" they are, who cares. I never say I have purebred Dutch Shepherds, and I don't go calling my clients purebred labradors and purebred beagles. They're just labs and beagles. I don't call myself a purebred or cross bred Caucasian either.

We compete in registries where there isn't an option for X after the breed (like the KNPV may list). I do not live in Europe. I do not show in FCI shows/trials. The dog is either a specific breed, or it is an All-American (mix) here in the US. FCI DS folks would not consider my dogs purebred, but AKC has no problems identifying a dog by pictures against the standard and issuing alternative purebred papers without an X added in. My dogs count in the AKC Dutch Shepherd performance statistics since they have PAL numbers. They take my entry fees just as willingly as the FCI dogs. In CPE and USDAA, they don't even need a pedigree to compete, so my dogs have papers there issued as DSDs.

I know Elli's pedigree and I know that it is what UKC considers purebred, although she isn't acceptable for AKC foundation stock. I'm guessing land of oz got their dogs registered when UKC had open studbooks for the breed and that's how her little was registered. I really don't know. I lost the rights to her original papers when she went through the rescue for rehoming and she's on performance papers now. I've heard DS breeders spin the idea that the malinois in the pedigrees are really the fawn colored DS called "Dutch Malinois" that pop up in FCI dogs. I find the whole idea of "purebred" status a joke. There are open studbooks and different registries have different rules. The whole definition is made up by dog breeders. In most livestock, it's 3 generations of breeding true, and you get a new breed. We have registries for the Australian Labradoodle that calls them purebred.

Before I came into DS, I used to show and compete with English Setters. They were registered through the Field Dog Stud Book. That registry is older than the AKC and isn't an FCI registry, but it's considered gold in the hunting world. FDSB doesn't single register AKC dogs, so by definition, a dog could be a purebred AKC English Setter, yet not be considered purebred in FDSB and you'll have either club arguing until they're blue in the face. You also have Llewellin setters which are DNA tested English Setters from a specific line of dogs listed as a different breed, but they can be bred to English Setters and the offspring are called English Setters.

It's all about perspectives.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Stephanie is exactly right. In genetics, you're X if you have the majority of the genes from X. Doesn't matter if it's 23% or 10% or 80%.

What's really funny is that there are FCI dogs bred into KNPV lines and there are even a handful of KNPV line dogs being bred as FCI lines... Heck, I know of two DS (not on this forum) that don't meet UKC standards yet are UKC registered... Still don't know how they managed to do that.

In the Netherlands they consider the DS and Mal the same dog with different color. If a DS mom has a litter and half are fawn, they're Mals. Or, if you really want to get specific, Malx, and the brindle pups as DSx. The difference to them is in the lines, not the breed (or color of the fur).

[22troy]

We are picking him up tomorrow! Cannot wait!!!

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Yay!!!!!

[22troy]

We picked up Sirius yesterday! He is an absolute dream. Not a mean bone in his body and he is extremely smart! Here are some pics. He is amazing!!!

[Dutchringgirl]

oh he is too cute

[22troy]

He was rescued by his foster family. When they found him he had a horrible case of mange. They took him in, cared for him and fixed him up. It was so sad to see his before pictures, but he is absolutely stunning now!